# Is Wikileaks a threat to United States national security. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526 "2011-01-30T18:02:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/61 "2011-02-01T02:12:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Let me clarify. Manning should be tried for treason and shot. Yesterday. And anytime this happens, the trials should be as accelerated as possible, so as people can see a clear link between that type of activity and the punishment. Okay, but why does Assange need a bullet to the head, too? > [@](#): > > That kind of depends on what replaces the dictatorship they had, does it not? I guess, though for the most part (arguably the whole part) they have nowhere to go but up. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/62 "2011-02-01T02:22:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Assange should be locked up and made an example of. For what, exactly? What law has he broken? Or why you think an Australian is bound by secrecy Acts in a foreign country? Can strict Islam countries prosecute American civilians for violating their laws against public behavior while while eating at, say, a restaurant in Paris? Assange has done nothing wrong. He has broken no law. Indeed, he is not subject to US law. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/63 "2011-02-01T02:25:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Assange should be locked up and made an example of. You mean like [him](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo)? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/64 "2011-02-01T02:26:32Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Assange is a hero. he had the nerve to show the BS that is done in our name. Why is it good to lie to your country? Why is it necessary to do illegal acts in the name of America? Why are we stupid enough to accept we should be kept in the dark by those who work for us? > Assange is not making this stuff up. He is simply telling us what our diplomats and soon what our bankers did in our name. He is doing us a patriotic service. Bankers “in our name”? Bankers presumably acted in their private function or in the function of their employer not in the name of all the citizens of the US or whatever other nation. In addition if secrets come to light not only shall Americans know it but so shall the enemies of America. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/65 "2011-02-01T02:31:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In addition if secrets come to light not only shall Americans know it but so shall the enemies of America. Well, the solution is easy - get every man, woman and child in the U.S. to pinky-swear to keep secrets, cross their hearts, hope to die, stick a needle in their eye. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/66 "2011-02-01T02:33:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Then I don’t see why your problem is with Assange, or at least it seems greater than the problem you may or may not have with the people who gave these documents to him. > > I’m incidentally amused by Qin Shi’s claim that Assange’s publishing of American diplomatic cables caused the revolt in Tunisia and threatened revolts elsewhere in the Middle East. Aren’t these dictatorial nations? Wouldn’t some revolt be _good_ for the citizens? And that’s with the absurdly generous granting-for-the-sake-of-argument the rather egotistical assumption that American diplomatic traffic was the trigger. The revolt in Tunisia was caused in part by revelation of corruption in Tunisia. In addition these revolts have brought more instablity to the region which along with Sub-Saharan government need it least and hurt our efforts on the War on Terror. The way I see it dictatorships usually crumble on its own peacefully once the country is sufficiently developed and bourgeized and transition to stable democracies-look at the Republic of Korea, Chile, Spain, Portugal-while if a revolution occurs when the country is not developed enough it usually degenrates into dictatorship. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/67 "2011-02-01T03:10:04Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > The revolt in Tunisia was caused in part by revelation of corruption in Tunisia. I’m pretty sure the Tunisians already knew their government was corrupt. > [@](#): > > In addition these revolts have brought more instablity to the region which along with Sub-Saharan government need it least and hurt our efforts on the War on Terror. That not what you claimed originally, though, which was that Assange _caused_ the revolts by publishing the diplomatic traffic, which strikes me as tenuous as best. Before you can blame Assange for the results, you’d have to establish Assange was the cause. > [@](#): > > The way I see it dictatorships usually crumble on its own peacefully once the country is sufficiently developed and bourgeized and transition to stable democracies-look at the Republic of Korea, Chile, Spain, Portugal-while if a revolution occurs when the country is not developed enough it usually degenrates into dictatorship. So, if Tunisia turns into a weak but promising democracy, will you publicly credit and praise Assange? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/68 "2011-02-01T06:29:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > \ > As I’ve said, I predict that some operative from a minor country will put a bullet in his head. And that will be a good day. His rape accusations seem awfully timely - a bullet is so messy and old-fashioned. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Bankers “in our name”? Bankers presumably acted in their private function or in the function of their employer not in the name of all the citizens of the US or whatever other nation. In addition if secrets come to light not only shall Americans know it but so shall the enemies of America. As **Cluricaun** said, a private company that takes billions of government money forfeits a lot of privacy. I think the bottom line for me in all this is the idea that if you don’t do things that you have to lie about, you don’t have to worry about people knowing your secrets. Why should governments have a different method of operating than regular citizens? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/69 "2011-02-01T06:40:01Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Bankers “in our name”? Bankers presumably acted in their private function or in the function of their employer not in the name of all the citizens of the US or whatever other nation. In addition if secrets come to light not only shall Americans know it but so shall the enemies of America. Enemies of America?. Who is a worse threat to the country than some greedy bankers who destroyed the economy and trashed the security of the nation? Who is doing damage, a whistleblower or the guy who causes political unrest in a sovereign country? Is it the guy who pays billions of tax payer dollars to a dictator while stabilizing his criminal enterprise of a nation? Our national security is threatened by the deeds these guys have done. It is not by someone who lets us know what they did? We deserve to know what they do? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/70 "2011-02-01T07:20:45Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > [- Bill Keller, Executive Editor of The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/magazine/30Wikileaks-t.html?ref=magazine) I agree with this. I made this point earlier. However, that does not justify what Assange does. The change should come from our government itself. If we want a more transparent government, we can put one in office. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/71 "2011-02-01T07:23:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, but why does Assange need a bullet to the head, too? Because he is not someone we can bring to justice under our system. He needs to be stopped, and made an example of, by any means necessary. I’d prefer trying him and locking him up. He wants to take that off the table, fine. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/72 "2011-02-01T07:25:22Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > His rape accusations seem awfully timely - a bullet is so messy and old-fashioned. Don’t see the need for an either-or scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/73 "2011-02-01T07:51:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Because he is not someone we can bring to justice under our system. He needs to be stopped, and made an example of, by any means necessary. I’d prefer trying him and locking him up. He wants to take that off the table, fine. Killing Assange won’t accomplish “justice”. Your suggested solution is entirely moot in an age where data can be transmitted to and then hosted on a server anywhere in the world. What are you going to do - take out the hundred people who will take Assange’s place? The thousand that will take _their_ place? You have an absurdly overconfident opinion of the strength of your “example”. Anyway, here I am posting under my own, real name. If Assange gets taken out, I’ll seriously consider contributing some time and effort to keep Wikileaks or whatever follows it going (I’d be more definite, but I honestly don’t know what running the project entails - I figure a cash donation will be a good start). Got a problem with that? Come and get me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/74 "2011-02-01T11:57:38Z")
**magellan01** , stop advocating murder. **Bryan Ekers** , stop trying to make this personal or trying to goad **magellan01** into making a personal threat. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/75 "2011-02-01T12:10:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Because he is not someone we can bring to justice under our system. He needs to be stopped, and made an example of, by any means necessary. I’d prefer trying him and locking him up. He wants to take that off the table, fine. Your post shows is that of a traitor to very ideals America was founded for. Your words spite on everything any police officer, soldier, activist, or other form of patriot died to defend. Your post, if sincere, shows you care nothing for freedom or liberty, only suppression and tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/76 "2011-02-01T13:01:53Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Your post shows is that of a traitor to very ideals America was founded for. Your words spite on everything any police officer, soldier, activist, or other form of patriot died to defend. Your post, if sincere, shows you care nothing for freedom or liberty, only suppression and tyranny. I think he is sincere. We should declare hi an enemy of the people… ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/77 "2011-02-01T14:33:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I see your point, and in the singular scenario you crafted I’d say the scumbag Assange is off the hook. But we can then look a t a pattern of his behavior, and when we do his cries of "oh, secret? really?, I didn’t know,sound likes a load of shit (true or not). Whenever I could, I’d go after him and whomever else seeks to subvert the power that is vested in our elected officials. I’d make such an example of him, and the next guy, and the next guy, no one would think about doing it in short order. I’d be as extreme as I had to be to reach those ends. So in other words, you think the government’s embarrassment can and should be reason for them to violate the terms of the 1st Amendment (freedom of the press, baby) and to convict and execute a foreign journalist who may not even have broken any American laws (remember, one of the opinions in the Pentagon Papers case asserted that it’s not a crime for journalists to publish classified documents, and the only people who can be charged are those who broke the secrecy of said documents originally). As opposed to taking the most useful path (namely, fix our damn document-classification system to actually be secure) and/or taking the high ground (telling Assange he’s doing a great service to humanity, then adjusting the business of our government so that we don’t do embarrassing things and leave the evidence out where any goddamn idiot can funnel it to wikileaks.) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/78 "2011-02-01T14:41:25Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > So in other words, you think the government’s embarrassment can and should be reason for them to violate the terms of the 1st Amendment (freedom of the press, baby) and to convict and execute a foreign journalist who may not even have broken any American laws (remember, one of the opinions in the Pentagon Papers case asserted that it’s not a crime for journalists to publish classified documents, and the only people who can be charged are those who broke the secrecy of said documents originally). > > As opposed to taking the most useful path (namely, fix our damn document-classification system to actually be secure) and/or taking the high ground (telling Assange he’s doing a great service to humanity, then adjusting the business of our government so that we don’t do embarrassing things and leave the evidence out where any goddamn idiot can funnel it to wikileaks.) No. I think government _embarrassment_ is a very minor problem. I’m concerned with the degree to leaks may be harmful to the U.S., it’s allies, and peace around the world. And what in the world makes you think that I don’t advocate fixing our document classification system? Of course we should. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/79 "2011-02-01T14:43:59Z")
I find it exceptionally amusing how mountains are so often built from molehills on this board. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526/80 "2011-02-01T15:00:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree with this. I made this point earlier. However, that does not justify what Assange does. The change should come from our government itself. If we want a more transparent government, we can put one in office. Alternately, you and others who prefer opacity are free to ignore Wikileaks and leave your heads buried reassuringly in the sand. Nobody’s stopping you from continuing to play ‘let’s pretend’ when it comes to the actions and policies of the U.S. government, if you so desire. Really, it’s OK; knowledge and truth aren’t for everyone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wikileaks-a-threat-to-united-states-national-security/569526.md?page=5)