# Is Windows Phone dead in the water? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746 "2011-08-31T14:53:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/21 "2011-09-01T04:31:29Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I’m going to discount “familiarity with Windows look-and-feel” as a serious factor affecting any purchasing decisions. Actually, for me it is a serious factor - driving me away from Windows. Familiarity does indeed breed contempt, at least for me. ---
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/22 "2011-09-01T04:32:53Z")
“Forget everything you know about Windows Mobile, because Windows 7 is so much better.” That’s the first thing the trainer from Microsoft told us when we were about to release the Pro 7. And that may be the problem–Windows Mobile 6 sucked. I’ve seen customers who used Windows Mobile for years give up and switch to Blackberry or Android because they couldn’t stand it any longer. And the trainer was right about Windows 7. It is a much better phone, but the negativity from previous versions is overwhelming. Mango is getting a number of rave reviews but it may be a case of too little too late. In the three months we’ve carried the Pro 7 my store has sold three, and one of those was returned. Compare that to three Blackberrys and fifteen Androids a week. Microsoft has a long way to go if they want to catch up. ---
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/23 "2011-09-01T04:39:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Microsoft doesn’t own Nokia, though. Google is going to own one of the big handset makers, and the competitor for the other Android makers. How will that sit with the handset makers? I don’t see it as too big of a deal. Samsung, LG and HTC make a lot of money from their Android phones. If they drop Android because of Googorola what are they going to do? Apple won’t let them use iOS and adopting Windows 7 may be their death knell. No, there’s too much money in Android for other manufacturers to drop it. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/24 "2011-09-01T18:00:40Z")
This will not help … > [@](#): > > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Microsoft allegedly tracks the location of its mobile customers even after users request that tracking software be turned off, according to a new lawsuit. > > The proposed class action, filed in a Seattle federal court on Wednesday, says **Microsoft intentionally designed camera software on the Windows Phone 7 operating system to ignore customer requests that they not be tracked**. > > A Microsoft representative could not immediately be reached for comment. > > The lawsuit comes after concerns surfaced earlier this year that Apple’s iPhones collected location data and stored it for up to a year, even when location software was supposedly turned off. Apple issued a patch to fix the problem. (Bolding mine.) > **[Microsoft Sued By Customers](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/microsoft-windows-phone-lawsuit_n_944197)** > > Microsoft Sued By Customers ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/25 "2011-09-01T18:30:37Z")
> [@Cell\_Guy](#): > > “Forget everything you know about Windows Mobile, because Windows 7 is so much better.” That’s the first thing the trainer from Microsoft told us when we were about to release the Pro 7. And that may be the problem–Windows Mobile 6 sucked. I’ve seen customers who used Windows Mobile for years give up and switch to Blackberry or Android because they couldn’t stand it any longer. > > And the trainer was right about Windows 7. It is a much better phone, but the negativity from previous versions is overwhelming. Mango is getting a number of rave reviews but it may be a case of too little too late. > > In the three months we’ve carried the Pro 7 my store has sold three, and one of those was returned. Compare that to three Blackberrys and fifteen Androids a week. Microsoft has a long way to go if they want to catch up. An MS business partner I work with always gets a Win phone because everything they do is MS - but every time I talk to him he is complaining about how it randomly shuts down or locks up and he has to remove the battery (multiple phones, multiple models over the years, he laughs about it, then he cries). That type of thing prevents me from even trying one of their phones, and I can’t be the only one. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/26 "2011-09-01T19:03:11Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > An MS business partner I work with always gets a Win phone because everything they do is MS - but every time I talk to him he is complaining about how it randomly shuts down or locks up and he has to remove the battery (multiple phones, multiple models over the years, he laughs about it, then he cries). > > That type of thing prevents me from even trying one of their phones, and I can’t be the only one. yet my HTC trophy is incredibly stable. Something doesn’t smell right with his story. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/27 "2011-09-01T19:56:29Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Agreed that it won’t happen. > > Blackberry is on it’s way out - there simply isn’t room for 4 major platforms/players. > > MS has deep pockets and can basically let them die, not sure if buying BB gains MS anything. I await the day BB finally dies. Other phones just can’t get themselves in the door. Ten years ago, Blackberry became the premier smartphone for business here and people started buying them for their personal use because they got used to them. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/28 "2011-09-02T01:54:15Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > yet my HTC trophy is incredibly stable. Something doesn’t smell right with his story. Because your HTC trophy isn’t having a problem that means that MS has never had problems in this arena? Are you unaware of the stability issues win mobile has traditionally had? Do you think I didn’t see him have to reset his phone more than once? (which is why the topic came up). Do you think that even if he told me it happens frequently, just like with his other win phone, that he was lying? It’s funny, I’m just guessing here and I could be wrong, but the only other time I see immediate disbelief or defensiveness about an MS product is with my friends that work at MS - so I am guessing you are an employee. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/29 "2011-09-02T02:01:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you unaware of the stability issues win mobile has traditionally had? WP7 has essentially nothing to do with Windows Mobile. > [@](#): > > Do you think I didn’t see him have to reset his phone more than once? (which is why the topic came up). if it was an inherent problem with WP7 I think there would be more written about it than some guy on a message board talking about his extraordinarily unlucky friend. > [@](#): > > It’s funny, I’m just guessing here and I could be wrong, but the only other time I see immediate disbelief or defensiveness about an MS product is with my friends that work at MS - so I am guessing you are an employee. I don’t even work in that industry, but nice try. My “immediate disbelief” is one part “I’ve not experienced that with my phone” and one part “if this was a widespread problem, the tech press would jump all over it.” ---
**Author:** ![jacobsta811](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jacobsta811/32/2893_2.png) [@jacobsta811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobsta811)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/30 "2011-09-02T02:07:01Z")
I love that sales pitch “Try us, we aren’t shit anymore !”. Sounds just like what GM and Chrysler were selling over the past 20 years. You have to blow people away and have some sort of unique feature that everyone has to have to overcome that kind of legacy. Not just say “it isn’t the same anymore”- suuure, uh huh, why should I spend my money to find out when I have two proven winners in Android and Apple to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/31 "2011-09-02T02:54:34Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > WP7 has essentially nothing to do with Windows Mobile. > > if it was an inherent problem with WP7 I think there would be more written about it than some guy on a message board talking about his extraordinarily unlucky friend. > I don’t even work in that industry, but nice try. My “immediate disbelief” is one part “I’ve not experienced that with my phone” and one part “if this was a widespread problem, the tech press would jump all over it.” I didn’t say it was wp7 - my post was related to the **Cell Guy’s** point about win mobile leaving a bad taste in people’s mouth. This situation I described happened 3 years ago and 7 months ago (same person). It’s entirely possible the 7 months ago experience was still a win mobile phone - I didn’t ask. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/32 "2011-09-02T03:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t say it was wp7 then why even bring it up? nobody gives a shit about Windows Mobile. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/33 "2011-09-02T03:38:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > then why even bring it up? nobody gives a shit about Windows Mobile. Uh, is there a reason for swearing? You seem upset. This was Cell Guy’s post in which he correctly points out that win mobile was less than optimal: > [@](#): > > “Forget everything you know about Windows Mobile, because Windows 7 is so much better.” That’s the first thing the trainer from Microsoft told us when we were about to release the Pro 7. And that may be the problem–Windows Mobile 6 sucked. I’ve seen customers who used Windows Mobile for years give up and switch to Blackberry or Android because they couldn’t stand it any longer. > > And the trainer was right about Windows 7. It is a much better phone, but the negativity from previous versions is overwhelming. Mango is getting a number of rave reviews but it may be a case of too little too late. > > In the three months we’ve carried the Pro 7 my store has sold three, and one of those was returned. Compare that to three Blackberrys and fifteen Androids a week. Microsoft has a long way to go if they want to catch up. Because I had seen an extremely pro-MS person complaining about his windows phone, I mentioned an anecdote that supported **Cell Guy’s** post. Summary: Win mobile had serious problems with freezing/needing to be reset, for years Consumers remember stuff like that This makes it even harder for MS to convince people to buy phones running their OS Do you disagree with this analysis? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/34 "2011-09-02T03:49:27Z")
Ok, you got me curious about WP7 and freezing, guess what, 3 million hits. Here’s an MS answer: > [@](#): > > Hi There, > > Thank you all for your posts. Microsoft is aware of this issue and is working on the fix. Please restart the device as a temporary workaround. And there are a whole bunch of these: > [@](#): > > I have an HTC HD7 and this happens ALL THE TIME. My only choice to get back to the marketplace is to reset the phone. It almost always seems to happen when scrolling the marketplace products, or it’s happened once or twice while it was downloading an app. I would recommend some googling so you can see for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/35 "2011-09-02T05:33:06Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > then why even bring it up? nobody gives a shit about Windows Mobile. exactly, and as consequence nobody gives a shit about any kind of Windows mobile phone. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/36 "2011-09-02T06:26:39Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > WP7 has essentially nothing to do with Windows Mobile. I don’t think this is correct. As I understand it, WP7 comprises a new user interface layer over an OS that is derived from Windows Mobile. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/37 "2011-09-02T12:04:56Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think this is correct. As I understand it, WP7 comprises a new user interface layer over an OS that is derived from Windows Mobile. it uses a newer version of the WinCE kernel. Everything else on top of that is new. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/38 "2011-09-02T12:06:24Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Ok, you got me curious about WP7 and freezing, guess what, 3 million hits. I get 6.5 million hits for “iPhone freezing.” What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/39 "2011-09-02T12:45:21Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > it uses a newer version of the WinCE kernel. Everything else on top of that is new. True, and the kernel has been reworked quite considerably in some respects, but I suspect it won’t have been rewritten from scratch. Time will tell whether any of Windows Mobile’s failings have crept through in those bits that are derived from the previous kernel. I’d like to think they won’t, but my (terrible) experiences with Windows Mobile 6.1 made me switch to Android, rather than Mobile 7. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746/40 "2011-09-02T14:00:23Z")
I’ve been a MS software dev guy for years. As such I’ve had MS PCs, MS servers, and MS phones. My HTC running WinMobile 6.1 has been almost troublefree for the 4-ish years I’ve had it. My wife bought an HTC Win7 Phone 3 months ago. Snazzy interface, easy to use. Reliable. The thing I do NOT understand is they crippled the interface between it & desktop Outlook. No more direct syncing; now you need to go through [live.com](http://live.com) and that won’t sync tasks or notes. WTF??? It’s almost like they designed it for consumers & kids to share videos & play Farmville rather than designing it as the Blackberry killer businessman’s phone. Which is what my wife & I want / need. I’m in the market for a new phone too and the lack of a good syncing solution is making me think about jumping ship to gmail, gcalendar, & an Android device. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-windows-phone-dead-in-the-water/594746.md?page=3)