# Is "Winter Wonderland" winking subtly at premarital sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843 "2017-12-19T05:47:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/21 "2017-12-19T18:39:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The only line that seems to have that implication is when the snowman “asks” if they are married. That implies they are doing something that a preacher would consider requires marriage. Not necessarily; he could have just been taking a professional interest and trying to drum up a little business. It’s like if they’d imagined the snowman was an insurance salesman and then he asks if they’re insured. [quote=“Anonymous\_Coward, post:15, topic:804843”] That reminds me of a skit by a Canadian comedy group called “The Frantics” Everything is a dirty word if you say it right! [/QUOTE] And don't even get them started on [architecture](https://youtu.be/svLig831Q\_o). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/22 "2017-12-19T20:42:50Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > I love the winter holiday songs. Let It Snow. Walking In A Winter Wonderland. Baby, It’s Cold Outside. Is there any better cozy feeling than being holed up together with your loved one, looking outside at the driving snow, no place to go and nothing to do but be together? It can be a lot of fun if you’re prepared for it! > > My mother spoiled such things for me. “I’ve been calling you and calling you all weekend, where have you been? Shacked up like a whore with some guy?” Ruined it, and I was almost 30! One of the reasons I didn’t cry at her funeral years later. Jesus. :eek: I’m really sorry to hear that. I hope you have had the opportunity for some serious therapy, or else you are just naturally tough enough to rebound from such an upbringing! ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/23 "2017-12-19T23:46:56Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > No, “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” is winking subtly at premarital sex. I always took it for date rape, what with roofie mentioned in the song. (Obviously, the line was more intended about him spiking her drink with more booze, but it comes across as roofied now.) ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/24 "2017-12-20T00:23:54Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Jesus. :eek: I’m really sorry to hear that. I hope you have had the opportunity for some serious therapy, or else you are just naturally tough enough to rebound from such an upbringing! Oh, it was 40 years ago, there was no love lost between us. She was a mean old bird, and most old biddies were like that at the time, and proud of it. I think today she would have been more ‘with it’. (and I think she was secretly jealous of the immoral young, she was resentful that she was a married mother of three, far too young.) I don’t mean to sully the waters here, just whenever I hear the cozy snowed in songs, that’s what I flash back to. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/25 "2017-12-20T01:12:42Z")
Winking at sex, marital, premarital, extramarital or otherwise, used to be common in song lyrics. Many of Cole Porter’s lyrics did this: > [@](#): > > They say the spring means just one thing to little lovebirds, > We’re not above birds, > Let’s Misbehave! _Any Ice Today, Lady?_, a novelty song from 1926, did this: > [@](#): > > Your pop is a nice man, > And so’s your old iceman, > Oh, lady, be good to me! People always find ways to talk about sex, regardless of the mores of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/26 "2017-12-20T02:08:27Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > No, “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” is winking subtly at premarital sex. > [@caligulathegod](#): > > I always took it for date rape, what with roofie mentioned in the song. (Obviously, the line was more intended about him spiking her drink with more booze, but it comes across as roofied now.) I saw a column where the writer said there’s three ways to listen to the song without thinking it’s creepy. 1. The way the writer (Frank Loesser) and his wife used to sing it to each other. Their styling made it clear she intended to spend the night all along and they were simply trying out excuses to see which one worked best. 2. As a simple duet between two people, who aren’t actually singing “at” each other. 3. [Watch this clip with Miss Piggy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ1SBAO1HU) You might still think creepy, but it won’t be male on female. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/27 "2017-12-20T03:24:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Until I just now checked out [the original](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc35J3smINQ), I’d never heard it without the second bridge, as follows: > > In the meadow, we can built a snowman > And pretend that he’s a circus clown. > We’ll have lots of fun with Mr. Snowman > Until the other kiddies knock him down! > > Given that line, I’ve always assumed it was about kids playing marriage. I’ve never considered that the song was about adults, either. The whole part about building a snowman and pretending he’s the parson sounds like the song is about seven to ten-year-olds. This being the case, the question about whether it suggests premarital sex is kind of horrifying to me. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/28 "2017-12-20T04:03:03Z")
I can’t see it as being about kids. Kids don’t enjoy walking along and looking at the beautiful sights around them. They run and jump and scream and laugh and play. Neither do they conspire by the fire to face plans unafraid. I mean, are these kids weird little mini-adults who listen to NPR and compile their Christmas wishlists from the L.L. Bean catalogue? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/29 "2017-12-20T04:09:53Z")
Did anybody else ever think the line was: “Later on, we’ll perspire…” ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/30 "2017-12-20T04:10:44Z")
We had a discussion of “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” last year: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=814225](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=814225) ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/31 "2017-12-20T04:21:19Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Did anybody else ever think the line was: “Later on, we’ll perspire…” Yes! For years. Perhaps the choice of words was meant to deceive the listener. The image of outer cold and huddled fire warmth, of lovers entwined in perspire and conspire, of the snow-man rising and getting knocked down, of an authority figure asking about marriage, of erotic _glistening_…it is all there. And the bells. Oh the bells… ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/32 "2017-12-20T07:23:57Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Did anybody else ever think the line was: “Later on, we’ll perspire…” Yes. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/33 "2017-12-20T09:27:56Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I can’t see it as being about kids. Kids don’t enjoy walking along and looking at the beautiful sights around them. They run and jump and scream and laugh and play. Neither do they conspire by the fire to face plans unafraid. I mean, are these kids weird little mini-adults who listen to NPR and compile their Christmas wishlists from the L.L. Bean catalogue? With the original lyrics only, I agree. But when you add the line about making a circus clown and the _other kids_ knocking it down, I say that forces it to be about kids: kids who are very committed to getting married when they get older, as kids sometimes get. I mean, I remember discussing with my “girlfriend” when I was a kid about us having kids and pretending all about that stuff. (This was even before I knew how women got pregnant.) So I could just see it. However, the original doesn’t have those lines, so that was not the original intent. Without them, I think it’s a straightforward engagement story, as I analyzed above. They got engaged either on the walk or shortly before that. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/34 "2017-12-20T09:48:31Z")
Oh, I didn’t realize it was a hybrid. Seems the later songwriter(s) didn’t really pay attention to what kind of song it was. Or they should have changed the earlier lyrics to fit their scheme. I meant to add earlier, BTW, that hearing it sung in that rich baritone doesn’t help it to sound like the perspective of a child. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/35 "2017-12-20T11:31:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I can’t see it as being about kids. Kids don’t enjoy walking along and looking at the beautiful sights around them. They run and jump and scream and laugh and play. Neither do they conspire by the fire to face plans unafraid. I mean, are these kids weird little mini-adults who listen to NPR and compile their Christmas wishlists from the L.L. Bean catalogue? Totally disagree. Kids do look at a newly fallen snow world as beautiful and enjoy looking at it. As for conspiring, I always took it to mean planning kid pranks such as tossing snowballs at strangers or playing ding dong ditch. There is nothing inherently sexual about conspiring. That’s a reach. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/36 "2017-12-20T23:11:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Totally disagree. Kids do look at a newly fallen snow world as beautiful and enjoy looking at it. > > As for conspiring, I always took it to mean planning kid pranks such as tossing snowballs at strangers or playing ding dong ditch. There is nothing inherently sexual about conspiring. That’s a reach. I’m not saying “conspiring” is sexual, only that those lyrics don’t fit with the idea that the protagonist of the song is a child. It’s the talk of being asked by the snowman if they are married and saying “no man” and then “later…by the fire” that strikes me as a winking end-around. What is the question about marriage doing in a song about kids playing in the snow? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/37 "2017-12-21T00:15:21Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m not saying “conspiring” is sexual, only that those lyrics don’t fit with the idea that the protagonist of the song is a child. > > It’s the talk of being asked by the snowman if they are married and saying “no man” and then “later…by the fire” that strikes me as a winking end-around. What is the question about marriage doing in a song about kids playing in the snow? I’d take the song to be about an adult couple feeling child-like joy after a snowfall rather than actual children, but either way they’re just playing around with the snowman. Even very young children sometimes have pretend weddings. Children (or teens) might also enjoy imagining that the local parson mistook them for grown-ups. After reading this entire thread, I still don’t understand what about this song you think is sexual. It playfully references the prospect of marriage and the end of the song maybe implies that there was some snuggling going on in front of the fire, but even that you have to read into it. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/38 "2017-12-21T00:28:49Z")
A beautiful sight We’re happy tonight The nighttime happiness is the reason for the song, not the daytime snow. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/39 "2017-12-21T03:33:17Z")
Any hint at sex is very mild, even by the standards of the time. As I mentioned earlier, songwriters who wanted to hint at sex could be more direct than this, even in 1934 (when _Winter Wonderland_ was written). The closest this song gets is the line about dreaming by the fire (when there might be something else going on, although the lyrics don’t say anything about it). There’s little here except a couple considering their future. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843/40 "2017-12-21T03:51:35Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Any hint at sex is very mild, even by the standards of the time. As I mentioned earlier, songwriters who wanted to hint at sex could be more direct than this, even in 1934 (when _Winter Wonderland_ was written). The closest this song gets is the line about dreaming by the fire (when there might be something else going on, although the lyrics don’t say anything about it). There’s little here except a couple considering their future. The word “conspire” does carry the hint of indelicate intimacy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-winter-wonderland-winking-subtly-at-premarital-sex/804843.md?page=3)