# Is withholding the ability to save lives tantamount to murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501 "2010-11-04T20:02:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/1 "2010-11-04T20:02:07Z")
In [this rather silly Cafe Society thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13103441#post13103441) about the relative assholishness of Batman and _Psych_’s Shawn Spencer, **Greg Charles** made the following observation: > [@Bigger asshole: Shawn Spencer from PSYCH, or Batman?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bigger-asshole-shawn-spencer-from-psych-or-batman/559475/15): > > Batman has a car that can drive itself, but he refuses to share the technology. How many people are killed each year in traffic accidents that would be totally preventable if Batman weren’t such a bastard? > > Sure, Shawn [sic] can get on people’s nerves sometimes, but he’s no **mass murderer**. (Bolding mine.) Does this really make Batman a “mass murderer”? Surely not from a legal standpoint, but what about morally and ethically? Specifically, if one is in possession of unique knowledge or technology that could potentially make the world safer and prevent certain types of death or injury, what is that person’s obligation to share it with the rest of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/2 "2010-11-04T20:28:11Z")
Only if I can sell it instead of giving it away. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/3 "2010-11-04T20:34:24Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Does this really make Batman a “mass murderer”? Surely not from a legal standpoint, but what about morally and ethically? > > Specifically, if one is in possession of unique knowledge or technology that could potentially make the world safer and prevent certain types of death or injury, what is that person’s obligation to share it with the rest of the world? AFAIC, that person has the responsibility to share it with the public. It is not tantamount to murder, but it is extremely unethical to profit from the suffering of others. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/4 "2010-11-04T20:38:34Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > In [this rather silly Cafe Society thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13103441#post13103441) about the relative assholishness of Batman and _Psych_’s Shawn Spencer, **Greg Charles** made the following observation:(Bolding mine.) > > Does this really make Batman a “mass murderer”? Surely not from a legal standpoint, but what about morally and ethically? > > Specifically, if one is in possession of unique knowledge or technology that could potentially make the world safer and prevent certain types of death or injury, what is that person’s obligation to share it with the rest of the world? I protest your calling my thread _rather_ silly. It’s _extraordinarily_ silly. That aside, Greg’s point is a good one. Even if Batman were an ordinary citizen, I would say he should at least release such technology. But as someone whose self-appointed duty is to protect innocent lives, his failure to do so is far, far worse. Any downside (my technology might be used by criminals!) is surely outweighed by the many lives that he could save. So – mass murderer? No, not quite. Asshole? Yes. Spencer’s still worse, though. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/5 "2010-11-04T22:09:01Z")
Where do you draw the line, though? I spend money on, say, internet service that could be saving some African baby’s life. Do I murder an African baby every month when I pay the bill? (Answer: no, I murder the African baby for fun and _then_ pay the bill so I don’t get my Netflix Watch Instantly cut off.) ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/6 "2010-11-04T22:24:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I protest your calling my thread _rather_ silly. It’s _extraordinarily_ silly. I stand corrected. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/7 "2010-11-04T22:25:51Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Where do you draw the line, though? I spend money on, say, internet service that could be saving some African baby’s life. Do I murder an African baby every month when I pay the bill? (Answer: no, I murder the African baby for fun and _then_ pay the bill so I don’t get my Netflix Watch Instantly cut off.) But it wouldn’t cost Wayne money to release the tech that allows the Batmobile to drive itself. It would MAKE him money. And saving lives is his supposed metier. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/8 "2010-11-04T22:49:58Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Does this really make Batman a “mass murderer”? Surely not from a legal standpoint, but what about morally and ethically? No. As far as I’m concerned, you’re only a murderer for failing to take someone out of harm’s way if it’s your fault they were in harm’s way in the first place. If Batman didn’t exist, the citizens of Gotham _still_ wouldn’t have the car he developed (bankrolled?). ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/9 "2010-11-04T23:11:35Z")
You have not established that Batman has secret technology that he is not selling or sharing. For all you know, the Batmobile may simply be manufactured and programmed from existing technology, with the lack of production models being an issue of cost. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/10 "2010-11-04T23:19:59Z")
Cost does seem a likely issue, he is a millionaire after all. But leaving aside practicality, deliberate inaction when it would save a life for little or no effort is morally indefensible as far as Im concerned, unless there is some ‘wider issue’ that can be argued. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/11 "2010-11-05T01:19:29Z")
What if the technology in question would be dangerous if it fell into the wrong hands? What if the technology, if available, could easily be adapted by a criminally insane villain into weapons of mass destruction? What if you’re a Starship captain, and you have to withhold life-saving technology, or otherwise refuse to save lives, in order to obey the Prime Directive? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/12 "2010-11-05T01:24:42Z")
Most of those are arguments that it would kill more lives than it would save, ie that it wouldnt be making the world safer overall. Batman isnt a starship captain unless Im really out of date on my comic books, sorry graphic novels. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/13 "2010-11-05T16:33:29Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > **Greg Charles** made the following observation: > > Batman has a car that can drive itself, but he refuses to share the technology. How many people are killed each year in traffic accidents that would be totally preventable if Batman weren’t such a bastard? As much as I enjoy taking credit for other people’s work … hmm, forgot where I was going with that. Oh, yeah. Check out [“Logically Critical: Ode to a Superhero”](http://www.logicallycritical.net/podcast/25%20Ode%20to%20a%20Superhero.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-withholding-the-ability-to-save-lives-tantamount-to-murder/559501/14 "2010-11-06T15:33:42Z")
Is it immoral to use auto-pilot cars rather than employ chauffeurs?