# Is witnessing restricted to Great Debates? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 23, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157 "2013-02-23T10:46:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/21 "2013-02-24T16:39:35Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > No, it’s not. Not really. At this juncture she posting almost exclusively in two pit threads, threads that are about her. She’s _really_ easy to avoid. “Almost” exclusively. I found ten threads she’s posted in, and that’s just on the first page of her “Find All Posts By” listing. My gripe is that she’s subjecting members to an obnoxious signature line, without setting it up as a signature line so that it can be turned off. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/22 "2013-02-24T16:54:59Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > “Almost” exclusively. I found ten threads she’s posted in, and that’s just on the first page of her “Find All Posts By” listing. > > My gripe is that she’s subjecting members to an obnoxious signature line, without setting it up as a signature line so that it can be turned off. How is it “obnoxious”? I can see it being annoying, but it’s not like she has a signature that says “Go Fuck Yourself, All of You, Always” Some people are spiritual and sprinkle that throughout their activities. It might be annoying, but I hope that’s never taken into account on this board or else I should just resign instead of being banned. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/23 "2013-02-24T18:01:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Witnessing goes a bit beyond a simple one-line expression of belief; it requires some sort of defense of that belief. I disagree. Just an affirmation is enough - the _shahada_ is witnessing, and it’s 7 words long. And it would be just as irritating if it was signed at the bottom of a person’s every post. Like has been said, it’s different if it’s a sig - I have those turned off. And it’s not about whether manual sigs are OK - that ship has sailed, I get that. It’s specifically about witnessing outside GD. It wouldn’t really matter if it wasn’t the same formula every time, and wasn’t at the end of every post. And no, before anyone chimes in, I wouldn’t consider a series of "bless you"s and "I’m praying for you"s in a “my whole family died” thread to be witnessing. I am, in fact, aware of what “context” means. > [@](#): > > Beyond that, getting worked up over it seems to me to be too much like looking for a reason to be upset. I’m not “looking for a reason to get upset” - I don’t think I’ve had _any_ interaction with the poster that prompted this query, positive _or_ negative. I’ve just read the Pit threads. I’m more wondering what the precedent would be that is being set. > [@](#): > > We already hashed out the matter of innocuous if irritating sigs with Shodan’s sign off which was also an innocuous bit of text that some people decided was irritating simply because they found the poster irritating. Are you saying you see _no_ difference between a simple “Regards, Shodan” and a three-line replete with witnessing and smileys? > [@](#): > > Treating this sort of thing as a rule violation that requires staff intervention seems an awful lot like a violation of the old maxim to refrain from swatting gnats with a sledgehammer.. Note that by “moderated” i don’t mean any Warnings or Notes - a simple “stop doing that” strikes you as a sledgehammer, now? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/24 "2013-02-24T18:03:19Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > How is it “obnoxious”? I can see it being annoying, but it’s not like she has a signature that says “Go Fuck Yourself, All of You, Always” It _becomes_ obnoxious when enough people tell you it’s annoying to those who don’t want to be witnessed at, _and you keep doing it_. > [@](#): > > Some people are spiritual and sprinkle that throughout their activities. It might be annoying, but I hope that’s never taken into account on this board or else I should just resign instead of being banned. 🙂 It _is_ taken into account on this Board - the “Keep your witnessing in GD” rule already exists. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/25 "2013-02-24T18:05:59Z")
I am afraid that you have failed to persuade me of your position. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/26 "2013-02-24T18:39:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It _becomes_ obnoxious when enough people tell you it’s annoying to those who don’t want to be witnessed at, _and you keep doing it_.It _is_ taken into account on this Board - the “Keep your witnessing in GD” rule already exists. Exactly. How is that not “being a jerk”? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/27 "2013-02-24T19:43:13Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > How is it “obnoxious”? I can see it being annoying, but it’s not like she has a signature that says “Go Fuck Yourself, All of You, Always” That _ **would** _ be a rule violation, even set up in the sig block. ;);)😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/28 "2013-02-24T20:09:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It _becomes_ obnoxious when enough people tell you it’s annoying to those who don’t want to be witnessed at, _and you keep doing it_. I think you’ve confused being unpopular with being obnoxious. > [@](#): > > It _is_ taken into account on this Board - the “Keep your witnessing in GD” rule already exists. Saying “God bless you” is not witnessing. The rule was not written to keep all mentions of God out of other forums and that is not how it has ever been enforced. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/29 "2013-02-24T21:20:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think you’ve confused being unpopular with being obnoxious. No, I don’t think I have. > [@](#): > > Saying “God bless you” is not witnessing. Saying it over and over again, by rote, in the face of objections, most definitely is. > [@](#): > > The rule was not written to keep all mentions of God out of other forums and that is not how it has ever been enforced. :rolleyes: Yeah, I got that - you know how you could _tell_ I got that, if you could be bothered to? When I made that whole point about “context” that specifically mentioned other uses of religious expressions. Did I need to specifically put a “God” in front of the “bless you” to make it clear that I’m not stupid enough to think any mention of God is verboten outside GD? Really? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/30 "2013-02-24T21:22:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am afraid that you have failed to persuade me of your position. I’m somehow not really surprised. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/31 "2013-02-24T21:48:39Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] [Quote=MrDibble] It becomes obnoxious when enough people tell you it’s annoying to those who don’t want to be witnessed at, and you keep doing it. [/quote] Exactly. How is that not “being a jerk”? [/QUOTE] This is exactly the same as the Shodan clause. It seemed like everyone was annoyed by it, they asked him to stop and he kept doing it. TPTB ruled it was OK. End of story. I’m on your side on this. I hate her Jesus sign-off screed/smileys. But just because it’s annoying to you and me doesn’t mean she’s breaking the “Don’t be a jerk” rule. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/32 "2013-02-24T21:58:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, I don’t think I have. You have. An action doesn’t become obnoxious just because other people don’t like it. The action is either obnoxious or it isn’t because of its content or its intention. You’re not obliged to stop doing something just because somebody else complains, and your refusal to indulge their preferences isn’t rude. It’s true that sometimes you have to go along to get along, but this isn’t a majority rule kind of thing. If a bunch of posters decided they were offended by the word “hello” and demanded everyone stop using it, would everyone who refused be inherently obnoxious? The answer is no. > [@](#): > > Saying it over and over again, by rote, in the face of objections, most definitely is. How does that work? It’s not witnessing unless a bunch of people decide they don’t like it, and then it becomes witnessing - but only when some people do it? > [@](#): > > Did I need to specifically put a “God” in front of the “bless you” to make it clear that I’m not stupid enough to think any mention of God is verboten outside GD? Really? Then I don’t know what you were trying to say. Being “spiritual” as **jtgain** described is not confined to GD either. Witnessing is a more specific behavior - and like I said, it’s one you almost never see on this board these days. 10 years ago I think it was another story, but few Dopers feel compelled to post unsolicited testimony about their salvation. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/33 "2013-02-24T22:06:09Z")
If being annoying counted as being a jerk, 3/4 the members of the board would be instantly banned, probably including me. Does anybody believe that 90% of pit-thread participation isn’t obnoxious? In common speech “Obnoxious” is worse than “being a jerk”. ## The jerk bar on the board is set way higher than that in conventional usage. In reality only egregious jerks are banned. That’s ok: most grok to the culture here with ease. I don’t see how that sig differs from the Shodan incident as per PlainJane’s comment. Marley: “Witnessing is a more specific behavior - and like I said, it’s one you almost never see on this board these days.” Me, chatting: I wasn’t aware that the definition was that narrow. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it here, which is actually sort of disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/34 "2013-02-24T22:14:54Z")
I’ve done a few searches in Great Debates but I haven’t found a really good example. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/35 "2013-02-24T23:59:28Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > “Almost” exclusively. I found ten threads she’s posted in, and that’s just on the first page of her “Find All Posts By” listing. > > My gripe is that she’s subjecting members to an obnoxious signature line, without setting it up as a signature line so that it can be turned off. Wouldn’t that require her paying for a membership? She’s a guest and profile signatures are an option only available to paid members. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/36 "2013-02-25T00:02:31Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Wouldn’t that require her paying for a membership? She’s a guest and profile signatures are an option only available to paid members. Nope, anyone can have a sig, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/37 "2013-02-25T04:54:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Nope, anyone can have a sig, I believe. Anyone can type a sign-off at the end of their posts, but only members can set up an automatic sig in their profile. > [@](#): > > Who can use signatures? Anybody can type a signoff at the end of a post, but only paid members may have signatures set up in their profiles (to set one up, click “User CP” on the menu bar at the top of each page, and then choose “Edit Signature” from the menu on the left). boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7697069&postcount=14 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/38 "2013-02-25T05:16:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You have. An action doesn’t become obnoxious just because other people don’t like it. Actually, it kind of does. But that’s irrelevant - see below. > [@](#): > > The action is either obnoxious or it isn’t because of its content\*\* or its intention\*\*. I bolded the bit that applies to witnessing in the face of objections. > [@](#): > > You’re not obliged to stop doing something just because somebody else complains, and your refusal to indulge their preferences isn’t rude. Kind of depends on the content they’re objecting to, and the reasons they do it. I ask (again) - do you all really say there’s _no difference_ between Shodan’s sig and this one? > [@](#): > > It’s true that sometimes you have to go along to get along, but this isn’t a majority rule kind of thing. No, it’s a Board culture kind of thing - and to me, a witnessing sig with a row of smileys is pretty damn uncultured by our standards. Get along to get along is right. > [@](#): > > If a bunch of posters decided they were offended by the word “hello” and demanded everyone stop using it, would everyone who refused be inherently obnoxious? The answer is no. And you’re saying there’s _no difference_ between the two? > [@](#): > > How does that work? It’s not witnessing unless a bunch of people decide they don’t like it, and then it becomes witnessing - but only when some people do it? It’s witnessing when it’s professing your beliefs in the face of resistance - and it’d be that when _anyone_ does it. > [@](#): > > Then I don’t know what you were trying to say. Being “spiritual” as **jtgain** described is not confined to GD either. Witnessing is a more specific behavior - and like I said, it’s one you almost never see on this board these days. 10 years ago I think it was another story, but few Dopers feel compelled to post unsolicited testimony about their salvation. That’s just one form of witnessing - like I said, just a 7-word profession of faith is witnessing too. And so is this. That’s clearly its poster’s intention - and I’m not just referring to the “sig” here, I’m referring to the content of some of the posts as well. But taken together, the sig is a big part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/39 "2013-02-25T06:14:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Saying it over and over again, by rote, in the face of objections, most definitely is.:rolleyes: > [@PlainJain](#): > > This is exactly the same as the Shodan clause. It seemed like everyone was annoyed by it,… Actually, most of us didn’t (and still don’t) give a shit. “ **Everyone** ” is going a _bit_ far. Let’s go down to the quarry and throw stuff in there. Regards **some other poster** TPTB have already ruled on the question… Repeatedly. Your being pissed-off about it doesn’t constitute a “jerk” rule violation. Deal with it. I have some smelling salts available for sale. Contact me! 😉 > [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve done a few searches in Great Debates but I haven’t found a really good example. Look for threads started by user name **GEEPERS** (now banned). Witnessing (and actively seeking persecution for his beliefs) is all that guy ever did. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157/40 "2013-02-25T07:06:30Z")
**MrDibble** , I’d hate to be around when you sneeze. Christ. :rolleyes: > [@cochrane](#): > > Anyone can type a sign-off at the end of their posts, but only members can set up an automatic sig in their profile. > > boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7697069&postcount=14 Really? I never noticed that when I was a guest. Was that changed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-witnessing-restricted-to-great-debates/651157.md?page=3)