# Is worldwide "communism" inevitable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2013, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790 "2013-08-09T10:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![slm2955](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c6cbf5/32.png) [@slm2955](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slm2955)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/61 "2013-08-10T03:45:49Z")
Idk:) ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/62 "2013-08-10T04:44:13Z")
> [@NotDeadYet](#): > > According to the latest list compiled by Forbes there are 425 Billionaires in the US. What’s that, 1 out of every 700,000 people? > > I know quite a few people who are worth over a million, but don’t think I know any who are billionaires. If you know a lot of them, what are you doing wasting your time arguing with the rabble and riff raff around here? 🙂 ::shrug:: He could be some sort of events liaison and be in the presence of CEOs, oil shieks, or what have you “regularly”. He might not know them personally but it’s not outside the realm of possibility. What is outside the realm is that he’s chummy enough with them to know that the’re heartless money grubbing douchebags. I would almost certainly think that billionaires would not be. Most of them I would imagine came from rather humble beginnings and amassed Billions (with a b) through investments coupled with business. Not a lot of trust fund billionaires out there. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/63 "2013-08-10T06:28:33Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But the thing is, whether you’re telling the truth or lying, I have no good reason to believe that you know lots of billionaires. > > You’re aware that on the internet, people make stuff up, right? So let’s stipulate for a moment that you’re telling the truth. There’s me, who makes shit up. There’s you, who tells the truth. Then there’s everyone out there reading. How do those guys out there reading tell the difference between us? ``` I'm not exactly getting where the animosity comes from, Lemur. I don't question that you're acquainted with Bill Gates. Why wouldn't you be? Here's something about these super rich folks ... d'ya know who knows them? Pilots, lawyers, massage therapists, chauffeurs, personal trainers, maids, butlers, mechanics, exotic animal trainers, gurus, priests, rabbis. The list is a lot longer than that. None of these folks are uber-wealthy, but you can bet that the rich guy still talks to his doctor, his nurse, his hooker, his bartender, his chef. It's not that big of a deal. There's a character in this thread who appears to be so intimidated by the prospect of being familiar with the super-rich that he can't believe a mere mortal who occasionally posts here on SD works in a capacity to hang out with them regularly. Couple things, American billionaires own homes and apartments all over the world, yes even in Laguna, and oh yes, Newport ... Vegas, too. And foreign billionaires LOVE southern California and love gambling in Vegas ... they own homes in SoCal and visit Vegas regularly. They regularly interact with bodyguards, baccarat dealers, magicians, strippers, actors, singers. They don't stay in subterranean lairs with mute henchmen and white cats. ``` In my experience, most of them have been A-holes with just a few exceptions. That said, all these folks that I judge to be dickish have hosts of friends that think they’re the salt of the earth. It’s all a matter of opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/64 "2013-08-10T06:42:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Actually leftists like me do think that that is a good thing, the problem is to assume and not look to pressure the globalization agents to help enforce basic things like worker’s rights and safety nets. > > No, suicide nets is not what I’m talking about, ☹ (one does not know if the right laughs cries about or ignores things like that) but it does point at the issues that we should not forget. > > [Foxconn buildings covered in suicide nets, though most workers are just sleepy and bored | iMore](http://www.imore.com/foxconn-buildings-covered-in-suicide-nets-though-most-workers-are-just-sleepy-and-bored) I agree. Those accounts (or that of the Bangladeshi garment workers burned to death by the fire a while back) are plain horrific and demands reform. ☹ > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Capitalism is about greed; about individuals enriching themselves at the expense of others. That is innately anti-egalitarian and anti-altruism. Getting rich isn’t a zero-sum game-one can _create_ wealth, not just take wealth at the expense of others. > [@](#): > > America doesn’t back democracy movements and has never had any interest in democracy. It wants puppets who do what they are told while making speeches about how great America and democracy are; not actual democracy. I’m sure that’s why Karzai is never criticizes the US and Iraq still allows a 100,000 American troops. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > And what “many leftists fear” is what is happening; a system where virtually all of the wealth, all the resources are hogged by a few while the majority suffer under them in poverty and exploitation. If that’s the case, then it has been the case since the beginning of history. While wealth inequality has increased in the last generation in the United States and other First World countries, a large part of it is a product of structural change, while much of the rest can be corrected with strong policies of social reform. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/65 "2013-08-10T07:33:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He was responding to a post about the US, not the world in general. But I doubt it’s true of the world in general-- that people are generally worse off today than they were 50 years ago. > > If you’ve got cites, I’d love to see them. [**Poverty**](http://www.gatt.org/trastat_e.html) > [@](#): > > In 59 countries, average income is lower today than 20 years ago. (United Nations Human Development Report, 1999) > > In 1980-1996 only 33 of 130 developing countries increased growth by more than 3% per capita, while the GNP per capita of 59 countries declined. Around 1.6 billion people are economically worse off today than 15 years ago. (United Nations Human Development Report, 1999, p. 31.) > > Poor are getting poorer in both relative and absolute terms, as one UNICEF study has commented: “A new face of ‘apartheid’ is spreading across the globe…. as millions of people live in wretched conditions side-by-side with those who enjoy unprecedented prosperity.” (UNICEF figures based on World Bank “World Development Indicators 1997”) [**Inequality**](http://www.gatt.org/trastat_e.html) > [@](#): > > The richest fifth have 80% of the world’s income and the poorest fifth have 1%; this gap has doubled between 1960 and 2000. (United Nations Human Development Report, 1999) > > In almost all countries that have undertaken rapid trade liberalisation, wage inequality has increased—20-30% fall in wages in some Latin American countries. (UNCTAD 1997) > > Even in the First World, the gap between upper executive and worker salaries has never bigger–it is in fact many times bigger than it was twenty years ago. (UNCTAD 1997) > > Wages of unskilled labour declined by ~25% between 1984 and 1995. Unskilled wages in the US have fallen by 20% (in real terms) since the 1970s. (UNCTAD 1997) > > Trade liberalization is negatively correlated with income growth among the poorest 40 per cent of the population, but positively correlated with income growth among higher income groups. In other words, it helps the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. (Lundberg and Squire, Inequality and Growth; Lessons for Policy, World Bank 1999, Chapter 3.) > > At the start of the 19th Century, the ratio of real incomes per head between the world’s richest and poorest countries was three to one. By 1900, it was 10 to one. By 2000, it has risen to 60 to one ($29,000 to $500). (“The Assessment: The Twentieth Century – Achievements, Failures, Lessons,” Angus Maddison, Oxford Review of Economic Policy, winter 1999, cited in Martin Wolf FT 26/1/2000) …much more at source. ---
**Author:** ![donnie\_darko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@donnie\_darko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donnie_darko)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/66 "2013-08-10T12:48:24Z")
I notice when I debate politics online the capitalists reveal their true, bigoted colors after long enough. I wish they would just be forthright and admit they want slavery back! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/67 "2013-08-10T13:35:36Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**Poverty**](http://www.gatt.org/trastat_e.html) > > [**Inequality**](http://www.gatt.org/trastat_e.html) > > …much more at source. That just means the rich got richer, but not that the poor got poorer. “Unskilled labor” in developed countries represents a small fraction of the populace, not the majority, as was the original claim. So, yeah, more cites are needed to back up that claim. If you want to make a different claim, that’s fine. But you agreed with **DT** , and he’s simply wrong. Just to be clear, this is the post we’re talking about: > [@](#): > > I disagree. We are hwaaaay better off now that when I was a kid. Yes, true, the very rich have become the ultra rich. But I have better healthcare, better tech, better food, a better car, better entertainment, and a better life. Now, “a better life” is certainly subjective, but I don’t think the rest of that is. ---
**Author:** ![donnie\_darko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@donnie\_darko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donnie_darko)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/68 "2013-08-10T14:28:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That just means the rich got richer, but not that the poor got poorer. “Unskilled labor” in developed countries represents a small fraction of the populace, not the majority, as was the original claim. > > So, yeah, more cites are needed to back up that claim. If you want to make a different claim, that’s fine. But you agreed with **DT** , and he’s simply wrong. > > Just to be clear, this is the post we’re talking about: > > Now, “a better life” is certainly subjective, but I don’t think the rest of that is. I think “better entertainment” is not only debatable, but downright wrong. Justin Bieber is a product of capitalism, remember that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/69 "2013-08-10T20:50:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > No you don’t. > [@madsircool](#): > > Kid Gallahad…according to Wiki there are 425 billionaires in the entire country. There are not lots of them. Newport Beach might MIGHT have 1 or 2. Laguna? Nope. Hollywood? Definitely not…its not even a city. Please grind out a few more levels of fabrication before you try it again. There are numerous ways to challenge an unsupported claim. The simplest and most common is to simply note that data is not the plural of anecdote. However, accusing another poster of lying is not permitted in this forum regardless whether it is a simple denial or a claim that the poster has “fabricated” his claim. Do not do this again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/70 "2013-08-10T22:57:22Z")
> [@donnie\_darko](#): > > I think “better entertainment” is not only debatable, but downright wrong. Justin Bieber is a product of capitalism, remember that. 😃 Yeah, but he’s Canadian. If they didn’t have socialized medicine, maybe he would have been an infant mortality statistic. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/71 "2013-08-10T23:15:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He was responding to a post about the US, not the world in general. But I doubt it’s true of the world in general-- that people are generally worse off today than they were 50 years ago. > > If you’ve got cites, I’d love to see them. Well, since you appear to be set on your ideas and I in mine – in fact, living in a Third World nation I see the poor getting poorer quite literally, all around me – I’ll leave it at that. Not much in the mood to do homework for you. And yes, I wasn’t just agreeing over the US, bur rather on a Global scale. Enjoy your evening. PS – [**Do the rich get richer and the poor get poorer?**](http://www.rgs.org/OurWork/Schools/Teaching+resources/Key+Stage+3+resources/Who+wants+to+be+a+billionaire/Is+it+ok+for+the+rich+to+keep+getting+richer.htm) Literally thousands of sites like that one, explaining and citing their arguments as to why that’s happening. You may, or not, take it from there. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/72 "2013-08-10T23:16:55Z")
Hahahahaha no, OP. We are going in the other direction. As scarcity increases pressure on the population, even the level of civil rights enjoyed by the previous generation will come to seem utopian. In the face of massive privation, elites will push the excess population into ruin and into war in the faint hope of holding onto their own comfort. You can’t repeal the laws of political nature. …OK, I’d like to be wrong. But with the RCC pushing high birthrates, I’m afraid it’s only getting worse right now. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/73 "2013-08-11T00:09:35Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Op what you are describing is not communism it’s a “post scarcity economy”. > [Post-scarcity - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy) > > A number of sf authors have written about this especially see Iain m banks culture novels and fellow Scottish sf writer Ken Mac Leod. This was what I was going to say - this is the only way Communisim could actually work in any fashion remotely close to what the hippy-dippy Hipsters would want to experience. But… The only way that we can reach that level of advancement is for at least SOME of the rich to “win” - factory workers and dirt farmers don’t invent replicatiors. You want to just roll over and say “tea, Earl Grey, hot” and have it appear? Then somewhere in the belly of that machine are parts invented, made, and sold by some corporations, somewhere. And let’s not get into the whole “well once you have ONE replicator, you can make as many more as you want” argument. Even then, someone will have control over the power that runs them, and so at the very least you’ll still have someone at the top of the pyramid selling you the power for you to enjoy your miraculously produced morning spliff. So in the far future of near-Communistic bliss, those who have the power will have the Power. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/74 "2013-08-11T00:15:24Z")
> [@donnie\_darko](#): > > I notice when I debate politics online the capitalists reveal their true, bigoted colors after long enough. I wish they would just be forthright and admit they want slavery back! :smack: No, no, no - we don’t want slavery back - we just want all of you to die. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/75 "2013-08-11T00:15:45Z")
**Red Fury** , while yes the world is getting poorer, I was asking for cites/explanation that the US in general is worse off today than 20 years ago. As a quick and dirty, here’s median household income, with inflation adjusted: > **[Dave Manuel Dot Com](https://www.davemanuel.com/)** > > Dave Manuel - Economics, Stock Market and Real Estate Coverage In the spirit of this thread, to throw a claim that we’re worse off today than 20 years ago, it has to be pertinent. A global trend makes it hard to say what the cause is, and that just because we’re on a downward spiral, it doesn’t mean that a worldwide communism is going to bring it to an uptick. I guess what I’m trying to say is, do you have convincing arguments that for most Americans, life today is worse than it was 20 years ago (note, most. not some). Or if you had convincing arguments that for citizen X of country X, the benefit of widespread communism makes it a better system. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/76 "2013-08-11T00:17:06Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Well, since you appear to be set on your ideas and I in mine – in fact, living in a Third World nation I see the poor getting poorer quite literally, all around me – I’ll leave it at that. Not much in the mood to do homework for you. > > And yes, I wasn’t just agreeing over the US, bur rather on a Global scale. > > Enjoy your evening. > > PS – [**Do the rich get richer and the poor get poorer?**](http://www.rgs.org/OurWork/Schools/Teaching+resources/Key+Stage+3+resources/Who+wants+to+be+a+billionaire/Is+it+ok+for+the+rich+to+keep+getting+richer.htm) Literally thousands of sites like that one, explaining and citing their arguments as to why that’s happening. You may, or not, take it from there. I don’t think this just a matter of differing opinions, but of looking at actual data vs anecdotes. Look at [Infant Mortality over the last 50 or so years:](http://healthintelligence.drupalgardens.com/content/global-overview-magnitude-disparities-and-trend-infant-mortality-world-1950-2011) > [@](#): > > Monitoring and evaluation of population health is a core public health function. The infant mortality rate (IMR) is one those core population health indicators as it reveals the quality of life of mothers and other family members, the access to and quality of health services, access to a good nutrition, education, human rights and security, inequity in deprived population groups and the environment. > > \ > > In the World, between 1960 and 2011 infant mortality rate has been significantly reduced in [sic] 85%, from 113.7 to 17.3 per 1,000 live births Assume that is a typo and “in” should be “by”. IMR correlates well with all sorts of other quality of life indicators, and it is simply unarguable that it has been on a steep decline. Sure, you can find areas that are worse off today than they were in the past, but the overall global trend is improving, not getting worse. Further, if you look at life expectancy, you can see that it is [highly correlated with per capita GDP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LifeExpectancy_GDPperCapita.png) and world-wide GDP has been [on a positive growth trend for decades](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WeltBIPWorldgroupOECDengl.PNG) All you need to do is look at the per capita GDP of China and India, and you’ve got a good chunk of the world covered right there. Are you thinking that their per capita GDP is less now than it was 50 years ago? I think you are confusing the idea that life is still crappy for a lot of people in the world with the fact that it used to be a LOT crappier. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/77 "2013-08-11T01:27:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think you are confusing the idea that life is still crappy for a lot of people in the world with the fact that it used to be a LOT crappier. And the fact that the gap between the very rich and the rest of us is getting bigger doesn;t actually make other worse off. ---
**Author:** ![donnie\_darko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@donnie\_darko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donnie_darko)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/78 "2013-08-11T17:23:18Z")
I think capitalists give capitalism the credit that development deserves. Also keep in mind that prior to the Age of Neoliberalism (1991ish to the present) the lot of the world’s poor was improving faster than it is now. Not only that but some regions, most notably Africa and the former USSR are actually _worse_ off today than they were in the 1970s and 1980s. The improvement in Asia is very real, but also highly qualified. It wasn’t brought to them by a lassiez-faire market policy either, the “capitalism” of China still has a very large state involvement. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/79 "2013-08-11T19:42:36Z")
> [@donnie\_darko](#): > > I think capitalists give capitalism the credit that development deserves. Also keep in mind that prior to the Age of Neoliberalism (1991ish to the present) the lot of the world’s poor was improving faster than it is now. > > Not only that but some regions, most notably Africa and the former USSR are actually _worse_ off today than they were in the 1970s and 1980s. The improvement in Asia is very real, but also highly qualified. It wasn’t brought to them by a lassiez-faire market policy either, the “capitalism” of China still has a very large state involvement. Please. You want to compare the Chinese economy of the Mao era vs modern China in terms of state involvement? It’s day and night. The presence of state involvement does not mean that they get to share the credit of capitalistic gains. In fact, the deregulation under Deng is widely acknowledged as the sole reason of the current economic boom. Even Leninists acknowledged the role of capitalism in economic development as the better policy and that a requisite amount of industrialization through capitalism is required before socialism can slide in and take the reins. > **[File:Prc1952-2005gdp.gif](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prc1952-2005gdp.gif)** > > Original file (1,161 × 675 pixels, file size: 29 KB, MIME type: image/gif) > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. > **[New Economic Policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy)** > > The New Economic Policy (NEP) (Russian: новая экономическая политика (НЭП), romanized: novaya ekonomicheskaya politika) was an economic policy of the Soviet Union proposed by Vladimir Lenin in 1921 as a temporary expedient. Lenin characterized the NEP in 1922 as an economic system that would include "a free market and capitalism, both subject to state control", while socialized state enterprises would operate on "a profit basis". > The NEP represented a more market-oriented economic policy (deeme... ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790/80 "2013-08-11T20:15:43Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I would almost certainly think that billionaires would not be. Most of them I would imagine came from rather humble beginnings and amassed Billions (with a b) through investments coupled with business. Not a lot of trust fund billionaires out there. You get rich by luck, ruthlessness and by having the right connections, not by being nice. And it’s unlikely that a rich person will come from humble beginnings; the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Being born into the “right” family is important. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Getting rich isn’t a zero-sum game-one can _create_ wealth, not just take wealth at the expense of others. Except that under capitalism the people who create wealth don’t profit from it; the people with capital do. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’m sure that’s why Karzai is never criticizes the US and Iraq still allows a 100,000 American troops. :rolleyes: We gave up after the Iraqis demonstrated that they weren’t going to roll over in submission like we wanted. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > While wealth inequality has increased in the last generation in the United States and other First World countries, a large part of it is a product of structural change, while much of the rest can be corrected with strong policies of social reform. Capitalism is anti-social reform. The ultimate goal of any good capitalist is a society of masters, slaves, and forced consumers. They want goods produced at a minimal cost for themselves, to be sold to people who have to buy them at the price the capitalists demands. Company towns and slave plantations and the like. And the “structural change” in question is the rich diverting more and more wealth to themselves and making themselves more and more above the law. > [@Werekoala](#): > > And let’s not get into the whole “well once you have ONE replicator, you can make as many more as you want” argument. Even then, someone will have control over the power that runs them, and so at the very least you’ll still have someone at the top of the pyramid selling you the power for you to enjoy your miraculously produced morning spliff. > > So in the far future of near-Communistic bliss, those who have the power will have the Power. Or, in such a society the government can simply provide the energy and basic feedstock for the replicators. It’s not like classic communism where the sheer complexity of running an economy was too much for a government to handle well; rationing out energy and a few feedstocks is far simpler. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-worldwide-communism-inevitable/665790.md?page=5)