# Is wrapping dead Islamic terrorists in pigskin and lard a good deterrent? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2002, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074 "2002-11-03T06:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/21 "2002-11-03T22:10:45Z")
This is an excelent question, and one that I was intending to ask myself, but did not get around to. The focal point is: is it actually true? Do Muslims actually believe that people buried in pigskin - through no fault of their own - cannot go to Heaven? If they do, it sounds like a great idea, because it would likely work. I don’t think any of the objections mentioned here are valid. If it is not true, than the whole issue is moot. Unfortunately, the whole idea sounds very farfetched, and I am skeptical as to whether it is true. What we need however, is one of our Islamic scholars to weigh in. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/22 "2002-11-03T22:13:03Z")
Is forcing Christian extremists who bomb abortion clinics to piss on a Bible a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/23 "2002-11-03T22:28:29Z")
A lot of Muslim theology is based on Hebrew/Jewish belief, as Muslims regard themselves as inheritors and, to some degree, co-religionists, Allah and Jahweh are the same God. It is clear in Jewish theology and law that the law does not supercede humanity: if the comission of what would otherwise be a blasphemy would save a life, the blasphemy is rendered moot. Put oversimply, if eating a ham sandwhich will save your neighbors life, not only are you forgiven for eating the sandwhich, you are obligated to do so. Certainly, in Islam as in other religions, there are those who lose sight of this humanity, who uphold the letter of the law above the spirit. A parallel might be the despicable notion of infant damnation, the idea that a baby unbaptized would be damned to eternal hellfire. Cruel men worship cruel gods, in thier image. To paraphrase Hillel, “Love is the Law, everything else is commentary.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/24 "2002-11-03T22:29:09Z")
Hey Blalron- How about if we do the same thing to families of anti-abortion terrorists. If someone blows up a clinic or shoots a doctor we burn his family’s house down. You are an asswipe, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/25 "2002-11-03T22:54:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Crusoe_ > I can just see terrorists throwing down their arms in horror. Desecrating their dead bodies? Yeah, that’s guaranteed to end terrorism. It’s not like it would create more hatred and more martyrs, is it? As I understand it, for the serious hardline psychotic fundamentalists there aint many sins greater than coming into contact with pork, pigskin, pigs blood etc… If you do that then you’re pretty much condemned to hell. At least, that’s what the zealots believe AFAIK. Assuming that the article is accurate when it says: > [@](#): > > some Muslims believe they cannot enter heaven if they’re wrapped in pork Then I believe it would be an excellent deterrent because future ‘martyrs’ would be in less of a rush to kill themselves and others because they would spend eternity in hell as a ‘reward’. That’d certainly put me off. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/26 "2002-11-03T23:26:52Z")
I think it’s positively brilliant. These worthless wackos need all the reflection that can be tossed at them. Religious fanatacism cuts both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/27 "2002-11-03T23:40:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Sure. We obviously can’t deter them with prison time, since what they do usually kills them in the process. > > Another good technique would be to go to their family’s house, escort them outside, and make them watch as their residence is set on fire. If loved ones will be harmed by their actions, maybe they’d think about it twice. \*\* Are you kidding? The sick bastards send their own families to death volountarily. ---
**Author:** ![dave316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dave316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dave316)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/28 "2002-11-03T23:58:18Z")
boy, that big pork gang that has been giving all that campaign contributions to Bush has really got you all brainwashed. Don’t you guys see what will happen. Russia buys more pork, the Muslims get a bunch of lard smeared on them .Some Muslim priest thinking that all is lost says that pork isn’t bad for Muslims anymore now you have a whole new market those billions of former non pork eating Muslims ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/29 "2002-11-04T00:09:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > Is forcing Christian extremists who bomb abortion clinics to piss on a Bible a good idea? I don’t know if you can compare one circumstance to another. The specific problem with suicide bombers is that any conceivable “punishment” is impossible - they’re dead. So this idea is a grasp at a deterrent that might work (again, asuming this claim is true) even under such circumstances. In the case of abortion clinics, such desparate measures are not necessary. Further, the idea of wrapping these guys in pigskin is not an afront to innocent Muslims (to the exent that they don’t symphathize with the bombers) - the bodies of these guys are not sacred to Muslims. By contrast, any random Bible is considered holy by many people. I actually thought it might be a good idea to feed the remains of the suicide bombers to pigs - independent of any religious considerations, it is possible that the simple indignity of it might deter some. There is apparently a lot of glory in dying to kill as many people as possible - I don’t know if being fed to a pig is as glorious. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/30 "2002-11-04T00:24:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **IzzyR** _ > The focal point is: is it actually true? Do Muslims actually believe that people buried in pigskin - through no fault of their own - cannot go to Heaven? I honestly have not found any solid information as to whether this is widely believed or not. Snopes considered it undetermined ( referring to Pershing supposedly doing this in the Phillipines ). However my educated guess on the matter is as **Elucidator** said - It would be considered justified by a true fanatic as a necessary evil and would not prevent martyrdom. Snopes notes Israeli settlers threatened this and Hamas seemed to dismiss the threat, which I guess would be pretty close to the final word re: the modern situation. Snopes link: [http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Blaron** _ > No. I’m just advocating that we seize all their assets and destroy their homes. > > Would this be fair? Hell No. Would it be a deterrant? Hell yes. Actually the Israelis have made use of this tactic with little visible in stopping terrorism, far as I can tell. Their are posters on this board that disagree, but I consider it a pretty useless policy that probably provides more motivation than deterrence. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Ranchoth** _ > Well, I’ve always liked the tactic Vlad the Impaler used to keep the Muslim turks from advancing on his capital… > > …but then again, impaling 50,000 POWs in a semicircle in front of an advancing army tends to deter pretty much ANY adversary, regardless of religious affiliation. Although this a widely quoted event, it does not appear to be entirely accurate. Vlad Tepes indulged in a number of these mass impaling. His big impaling of Turkish POWs in 1461 ( closer to 25,000 actually ) was done in the course of an offensive by _Vlad_ into Ottoman territory, rather than during a defensive stand. And the mass impaling that supposedly may the Sultan Mehmed II ‘shudder’ ( a notable achievement, as this was one of the more bloody-minded Sultans ) was actually of 20,000 Bulgarian peasants in 1462 and didn’t actually dissuade the Turkish offensive. It was actually encountered _after_ the Sultan had arrived at the capital to find it deserted witth the gates wide open ( mostly rural Wallachia had few urban centers and Vlad did not depend on them, thus weakening the Turks usual strategy ). Mehmed was frustrated by his failure to come to grips with the elusive Vlad. However, after a detachment of the Wallachian army was finally run down and slaughtered by one of his generals, Wallachian resistance began to collapse andthe Turks laid waste to the countryside, compellung Vlad to flee to Transylvania. Mehmed installed his brother Radu in Wallachia and Vlad, a former vassal of the Turks as well, entered negotiations to return to the fold as such, offering to conquer Trannsylvania and Hungary for the Sultan. However negotiations broke down and Vlad was seized by Matthias Corvinus of Hungary and spent the next 14-odd years in prison, before briefly resurrecting his career in his twilight years. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/31 "2002-11-04T02:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\* > > Captive: I’ll never tell! > Ivan: Don’t MAKE me use the sour-cream-and-salsa pork rinds! > Captive: Nooooooo! > Ivan: I could also slap you with a ham! \*\* _Nobody_ expects the Spanish Pigquisition! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/32 "2002-11-04T08:46:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*I don’t know if you can compare one circumstance to another. \*\* What **ruadh** said; it would be a great way to alienate Muslims generally, not to mention live up to the claims of the extremists. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/33 "2002-11-04T10:52:32Z")
I cannot believe people are advocating DESECRATING the dead people of another religion. Were you pissed off when henchmen paraded the dead bodies of American soldiers in Mogadishu? but of course, they are lesser people, right? So the rules don’t apply to us. ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/34 "2002-11-04T11:08:38Z")
But this isn’t any normal sort of desecration. This is a kind of desecration that, if the article is accurate, may dissuade their cohorts from killing anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/35 "2002-11-04T11:18:15Z")
And perhaps that’s the justification used in Mogadishu? Does anyone honestly think this would work? All it could ever do is give more ammunition to those looking to incite hatred. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/36 "2002-11-04T11:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gomez \* > \*\*But this isn’t any normal sort of desecration. This is a kind of desecration that, if the article is accurate, may dissuade their cohorts from killing anyone. \*\* desecration is desecration. It is inhuman. Why not analy rape a convicted felon on national TV to dissuade other people from convicting felonies? Do you think it would actually stop people, or piss more people off against you? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/37 "2002-11-04T11:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > But this isn’t any normal sort of desecration. This is a kind of desecration that, if the article is accurate, may dissuade their cohorts from killing anyone. Normal sort of desecration? At any rate: A) There is no indication that this story is anything but apocryphal. I’ve yet to find any sort of government confirmation and it may just be a bit of tabloid journalism - Something I understand Russia has no shortage of these days. Insomuch as Russia still courts its former satellites in Central Asia, it seems doubtful they would deliberately employ such tactics as a matter of policy. B) From a practical standpoint there is no indication that this would work and a few reasons to believe it would not. As the Snopes link I posted above notes in its little news snippet, Hamas at least seems dismissive of such tactics and I suspect that in this regard they can probably be considered somewhat representative of this brand of fanatic. C) Even if it had some limited efficacy ( which I doubt ), it would still be barbaric IMO. Not as high on the list as torture ( which I consider morally unacceptable even if it were effective ), but still pretty nasty. The urge to want to spite such wanton murderers is pretty understandable, but this particular method seems more likely ( in my view ) to enrage, rather than dissuade. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/38 "2002-11-04T11:50:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tamerlane_ > Hamas at least seems dismissive of such tactics and I suspect that in this regard they can probably be considered somewhat representative of this brand of fanatic. Would you be able to provide me with a link which substantiates this? I’ve tried looking but haven’t found anything. I’m not doubting your word but if you could find it it would be great because that’d basically nullify any of the arguments for this scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/39 "2002-11-04T11:54:33Z")
Gomez, Tamerlane has already provided a cite for this: At the bottom of [http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm) > [@](#): > > Palestinian Muslims reacted with scorn to the idea, saying the soul went to paradise and was unaffected by any taint to the body. > > “The keys to heaven are not in the hands of settlers,” said Sheikh Hassan Youssef, for Hamas, whose military wing has sent dozens of suicide bombers into Israel. > > Islamic reference books say the body of a martyr who dies for the faith is so pure that it does not need to be washed before burial, in contrast to the usual Muslim practice ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074/40 "2002-11-04T12:06:32Z")
Hmmm…Well on a little digging, the only source for the story, _Moskovsky Komsomolets_, does seem to be a widely read tabloid-style newspaper. One of their speculations in the 1990’s seems to have been that the U.S.'s Kosovo campaign stemmed from Bill Clinton’s sexual frustration after ending the affair with Monica Lewinsky. Hey, it could be :D. Dunno, I’m sceptical. But ya never know, I guess. - Tamerlane [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-wrapping-dead-islamic-terrorists-in-pigskin-and-lard-a-good-deterrent/135074.md?page=3)