# Is xmas morally bad for us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929 "2008-12-28T05:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/1 "2008-12-28T05:09:03Z")
Think of it, it’s the most selfish event in a kid’s life. I know, there are carols, churce, gramma’s house and all that, but to (especially) kids it’s “shut up and gimme my toys”. And we oblige, even encourage. We are made to feel guilty if the neighbor’s kid gets two extra games for his wii, and our kid only gets one. It begins before _holloween_, fer chrissakes! And it’s massive. Consider what we actually spend, and sacrifice. Oh. well! Peace mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/2 "2008-12-28T05:40:04Z")
Nobody makes you feel guilty except yourself. Also, I want a new plasma screen. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/3 "2008-12-28T05:59:23Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/4 "2008-12-28T06:04:19Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > …but to (especially) kids it’s “shut up and gimme my toys”. Cite? > [@](#): > > We are made to feel guilty if the neighbor’s kid gets two extra games for his wii, and our kid only gets one. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/5 "2008-12-28T06:07:18Z")
Who is stopping you from taking your kid down to the homeless shelter or your favorite charity to volunteer? Who is stopping you from taking your kid to church to learn about your religion? Who is stopping you from flipping on the TV and watching one of the million reruns of It’s a Wonderful Life with your kids? If you don’t like the message that your kids are receiving other places, then it’s your job as a parent to bring your own message to the table. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/6 "2008-12-28T06:09:01Z")
The smart kids will _believe_ in Santa Claus. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/7 "2008-12-28T06:32:18Z")
Like anything, Christmas is what you make it. The whole world is telling us to buy buy buy and spendspendspend–Christmas just amps it up, if you let it. But you don’t have to go along with the program, and there’s plenty in Christmas to encourage generosity, caring, love, and etc. too. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/8 "2008-12-28T16:11:19Z")
The premise is untrue. Halloween is the most selfish holiday. Even the most secular Christmas can teach children about giving. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/9 "2008-12-28T17:00:59Z")
No cites needed, as the OP is an opinion, originally posted in IMHO. But all the replies after #3 do need cites. So, let’s see some source quotes, kiddies. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/10 "2008-12-28T17:06:54Z")
What inspired the thought process which led to this thread ws a Lexus commercial in which a little girl comes to some friend’s/family’s house carrying her hobby horse, only to see that the resident little girl has a real pony. Did she walk over to the other girl and say something like “Oh, what a pretty pony”? TV doesn’t lie. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/11 "2008-12-28T17:24:27Z")
Just because it’s (supposedly) better to give than to receive, doesn’t mean it’s wrong to receive. Otherwise, giving would also be wrong, since you’re causing the recipient to be selfish. So giving and receiving are really two sides of the same action, and morally equal. It’s perfectly understandable for a young child to focus on the gift itself, but as he gets older he should learn to focus on the act of giving itself, the fact that a loved one cares enough to want him to have something he enjoys. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/12 "2008-12-28T17:46:17Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Nobody makes you feel guilty except yourself. > > Also, I want a new plasma screen. [Okaaay](http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6485284dd4/christmas-morning-from-greg-lou-present-lou-greg). You guys are sooo hard to please, but that’s what I love about you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/13 "2008-12-28T17:52:42Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > but to (especially) kids it’s “shut up and gimme my toys”. And we oblige, even encourage. Aw, hells no! Not in my house! > [@MLS](#): > > Halloween is the most selfish holiday. Maybe, but even there, I spend a lot of time with the wee ones practicing “please” and “thank you” and “Happy Haloween!” and not walking on the lawns before we go out. I tell them, “Even if we’re only there for a few seconds, we’re guests at that person’s home, and we need to use our best guest manners.” > [@mangeorge](#): > > No cites needed, as the OP is an opinion, originally posted in IMHO. But all the replies after #3 do need cites. So, let’s see some source quotes, kiddies. As in, source quotes from our kiddies? Okay! My daughter’s most anticipated thing this year wasn’t getting presents, but giving the presents she made (she’s 3, btw.) Little foam craft gingerbreadmen in a cello bag with Hershey’s kisses and a picture of her with Santa, they cost less than a dollar each. But she worked hard on them and constantly talked about how much she was looking forward to giving them to people. There was a minor crisis when she left the bag of them at my mother’s house the first night, and we stayed up until 10:00 so she could make more for the next family. Every gift she recieved was met with an enthusiastic “thank you!” and a hug. Her favorite phrase this year (and I have no idea where she picked it up) is “I always wanted one of these!” When she found a candy cane in her stocking: “I always wanted a candy cane!”; when she found another hanging on the tree: “I always wanted two candy canes!” (And then she gave the second to her brother.) The 15 year old is, of course, less effusive, but no less grateful. I recently shared the story of the year he got two XBox 360 games and didn’t have an Xbox. He very politely said, “thank you!” and then quietly went into another room to cry for a bit. (He got the XBox system a few hours later at the next house, so the story has a happy ending.) I was so proud of him for how he handled what was a pretty big disappointment at the time! I don’t think I’ve done anything extraordinary to get these results. I do have a few tricks: where other people ask them what they want to get for Christmas, I ask what they’re most looking forward to _giving_. I tell them about the presents I’ve made or found for other people and how much I’m looking forward to giving them. They’ve both given presents to people from their very first Christmas on - first Christmas is usually baby handprints in clay, second is a construction paper tree or something, and third and fourth some crafty thing. Beginning at age 5, they get $20 and a list and get to go crazy at the dollar store or the Christmas store at school. I think kids should be excluded from the “don’t just get any ol’ thing” rule. I know dollar store stuff is crap, but for kids, it really is the act of giving that counts, and my relatives understand that. They’re just as appreciative of a dollar store oven mitt as the finest crystal. And really, knowing that your grandson remembered the time you baked cookies with him and thought you might like a new oven mitt is the real gift in this case - it _is_ the thought that counts. The other thing we do is do a deep clean of their bedrooms just after Thanksgiving. We all select gently used (broken or missing pieces doesn’t count!) items to donate to a local shelter. This gets the shelter regiftable stuff right in time for the holiday, and also cleans the rooms for holiday guests and clears shelf space for new loot, so it’s a good thing all around. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/14 "2008-12-28T17:56:25Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Think of it, it’s the most selfish event in a kid’s life. > I know, there are carols, churce, gramma’s house and all that, but to (especially) kids it’s “shut up and gimme my toys”. And we oblige, even encourage. We are made to feel guilty if the neighbor’s kid gets two extra games for his wii, and our kid only gets one. That’s some pretty shitty parenting going on in your vicinity. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/15 "2008-12-28T18:00:07Z")
> [@furt](#): > > That’s some pretty shitty parenting going on in your vicinity. Cite! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/16 "2008-12-28T18:03:25Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > [QUOTE=furt] > > That’s some pretty shitty parenting going on in your vicinity. Cite! [/QUOTE] Your post is his cite. If that behavior is ehibited by the children and encouraged by the adults in your vicinity, that’s some pretty shitty parenting. I understand that there are external influences like advertising and peers, but effective parenting can overcome them in this particular arena. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/17 "2008-12-28T18:16:59Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Your post is his cite. If that behavior is ehibited by the children and encouraged by the adults in your vicinity, that’s some pretty shitty parenting. I understand that there are external influences like advertising and peers, but effective parenting can overcome them in this particular arena. No, it isn’t. I’m not qualified to be a cite. For one thing, a cite would need to show that shitty parenting is limited to “my vicinity”. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/18 "2008-12-28T22:32:14Z")
Been looking for a cite. No luck, but this [commercial](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ-KIASSBQs) pretty much illustrates what I’m talking about, and what I’ve seen with kids on christmas morning. There would be some "thank you"s, and maybe a hug or two, but the focus is on the presents. I have been at a few where the kids sit quietly and await their turn, much as, I suspect, **WhyNot** has at home. I’m 64 and have enjoyed a lot of xmas mornings. At most them, when the gifts are being opened, the kid’s whole attention is on the presents and themselves. That’s the very definition of “selfish”. Whether it’s kinda negative or not is what I asked. Opinions. BTW; I have two grown daughters and three grandkids. All are mass murderers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/19 "2008-12-28T22:38:47Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > What inspired the thought process which led to this thread ws a Lexus commercial in which a little girl comes to some friend’s/family’s house carrying her hobby horse, only to see that the resident little girl has a real pony. Did she walk over to the other girl and say something like “Oh, what a pretty pony”? > TV doesn’t lie. So…what did she say? And what is so selfish about this ad/ ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929/20 "2008-12-28T22:49:37Z")
Now, you tell [me](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUspsRRlue4). Everybody _does_ know the meaning of “selfish”, right? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-xmas-morally-bad-for-us/478929.md?page=2)