# Is "you have no understanding" okay out of the Pit? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 14, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636 "2010-11-14T15:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/1 "2010-11-14T15:29:48Z")
Calling someone’s position “stupid” too? In the game room recently, \*\*Colibri \*\*went off on me, doing both of the above, and defended himself by claiming that he was referring, as a poster, to the content of my posts in asserting that I had no understanding of baseball rather than to me personally, so no insult, no foul. I have no problem with this if it really is a rule. I’ll just be free-er in the future to refer to my fellow Dopers in precisely this way (probably noting this thread, if I get blanket permission to refer to other posters outside the Pit as “stupid” and having “no undertanding” of the subject they’re discussing). Of course I expect a non-answer such as “it all depends on context,” because I understand that there is one set of rules for Mods to follow, even when they not posting as Mods, and another set for such lowly posters as myself, but I would like to see something on the record about this. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/2 "2010-11-14T15:37:00Z")
Post # 91[here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=585157&page=2), btw. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/3 "2010-11-14T16:50:47Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Calling someone’s position “stupid” too? In the game room recently, \*\*Colibri \*\*went off on me, doing both of the above, and defended himself by claiming that he was referring, as a poster, to the content of my posts in asserting that I had no understanding of baseball rather than to me personally, so no insult, no foul. As I said in the thread, my comment was directed at the content of your post rather than at you as a poster, and was technically within the rules. However, I also acknowledge that it was not within the bounds of civility that we would like to aspire to on this board. I hereby apologize for being rude to you in that thread. > [@](#): > > I have no problem with this if it really is a rule. I’ll just be free-er in the future to refer to my fellow Dopers in precisely this way (probably noting this thread, if I get blanket permission to refer to other posters outside the Pit as “stupid” and having “no undertanding” of the subject they’re discussing). I’m glad to hear that you feel so strongly about civil discourse on the board. However, I would note that this is of pretty recent vintage. Just four days ago you made [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13130440&postcount=69) in a different baseball thread: [QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut > I’m sorry, but there’s just no way he would. Yes, you are one sorry character. Just your premise that “protection” is meaningful has been soundly thrashed–no one of any repute puts that one forward anymore. To do is to self-identify as “mentally impaired.” … [/QUOTE] I’m not clear about why you felt it appropriate to refer to **Jackknifed Juggernaut’s** position as indicating mental impairment, and call him a “sorry character,” while objecting to my post. If you feel my post was inappropriate, I hope you will offer **Jackknifed Juggernaut** an apology as well. > [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Of course I expect a non-answer such as “it all depends on context,” because I understand that there is one set of rules for Mods to follow, even when they not posting as Mods, and another set for such lowly posters as myself, but I would like to see something on the record about this. Like I said above, I was in the wrong in being impolite in that thread. However, I would also note that your posts in the thread were not models of civility: For example [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13135508&postcount=87): [QUOTE=quote] Graceless, boastful overstaters, impossible to argue with as a reasonable person, or even a reasonable fan, smug, snotty, hostile, supercilious, nasty, defensive, willfully obtuse–yes, I’m remembering what I find unattractive in your average Yankees’ fan. [/QUOTE] Now, since this was directed at a group, rather than at individual posters, it is also technically within the rules. However, since many of the other posters in the thread were Yankee fans, it doesn’t really constitute the sort of thing that promotes civil discourse. And while a certain degree of trash-talking is standard in sports threads, this is rather over the top. Of course, I understand that you are a strong advocate of graciousness, as you indicate in the same post I quoted just above: [QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Among the many things I dislike about Yankee fans, and among the reasons I enjoy pointing out nitpicks that I might let slide with a fan of another team, is their lack of graciousness. [/QUOTE] I think the gracious thing for you to do would be to apologize to the Yankee fans who happened to be posting in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/4 "2010-11-14T18:31:51Z")
I wish you would have said this in that thread, instead of making me jump through all these hoops just to get to acknowledge being out of line. And playing “tu quoque” was uncalled for, too. If you’d trying PMing me, for example, to add to your post above that you’d appreciate a few soothing words, maybe I’d think “What a swell guy. I should offer some kind words back in public.” But quid pro quo? I rather think not. What, I have to express an admiration for Yankee fans to join the community of civil posters? I don’t like most of them–I’ve dated some of them, befriended others (and briefly been one myself in my benighted youth), but as a class, I find them generally despicable. I try to express my views of Yankee fans as specifically as possible, rather than just leaving it at “Yankee fans suck.” I try to point out how they suck, and what they suck, and why they suck, in the hope of helping them to suck less in the future. I feel no obligation to satisfy your sense of civility, especially since you feel free to toss off epithets and when I point it out in that thread, you put your Mod hat on to bust my chops for my incivility that is within the rules of behavior and (until now)you refuse to acknowledge your own stepping over the line of incivility. I appreciate your coming around to civil discourse, however belated, and will offer the advice that apologies are IMO best solicited when the solicitation comes from a friendly and affable tone, not a belligerant one. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/5 "2010-11-14T18:40:30Z")
How gracious of you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/6 "2010-11-14T18:45:21Z")
Guys, can’t we all just get along? I mean baseball sucks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/7 "2010-11-14T19:09:57Z")
Dude, you are obsessed. These quotes are from the Playoffs thread: > [@Major League Baseball: The 2010 Playoffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-league-baseball-the-2010-playoffs/556197/548): > > I also despise Yankee fans for their “true-Yankee” bullshit. A-Rod is so clearly a superior player (and with laughable obviousness, a superior defensive shortstop) to your precious Jeter… > [@Major League Baseball: The 2010 Playoffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-league-baseball-the-2010-playoffs/556197/546): > > …But whoever I root for, I always will despise the Yankees, and their smug, self-satsified fans… > [@Major League Baseball: The 2010 Playoffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-league-baseball-the-2010-playoffs/556197/472): > > …I do hate the Yankees, with force and vigor and delight, but I think I hate condescending front-runner know-it-alls worse… > [@Major League Baseball: The 2010 Playoffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-league-baseball-the-2010-playoffs/556197/480): > > Everybody takes pleasure in something. I take pleasure in the Yankees losing, the Yankees suffering, the Yankees’ plane crashing into the side of a mountain. But mainly I enjoying discoursing with Yankees’ fans on the days following such events. There’s nothing quite like listening to smug, self-satisfied blowhards being forced to admit that, even with more more money than God, their team is not destined to win every single year. That’s just the sweetest thing… Face it, you started the Jeter thread to roll Yankee fans. You weren’t debating whether or not Jeter should get a raise or a paycut. Instead, you were lying in wait for Yankee fans to say something positive about him so you could sneer and express your disdain for all things Yankee. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/8 "2010-11-14T20:54:12Z")
I hate Yankee fans as well, but I’m starting to think I’d rather sit on a transatlantic flight next to a Bronx native talking loudly and forcefully about “homegrown Mark Teixeira’s heroics in the Intergalactic Series of 1849” than you justify your just-as-obnoxious behavior, prr. You’ve been a member here for eight friggin’ years and have been completely unaware of the “attack the post, not the poster” standard of conduct? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/9 "2010-11-14T20:56:51Z")
Nope. I would have been happy to discuss the Yankees’ sticky situation, and to enjoy it, and would have preferred not needing to deal with Yankee fans making all sorts of ridiculous exaggerations and misstatements. But I suppose you just can’t help yourselves. Do you need to brag and make provably incorrect remarks about Jeter rather than discuss the history of player payment, other analogous situations, advantages and disadvantages to overplaying star players, etc.? I could call that “rolling” the thread as fairly as you call my responding to such misstatements “rolling”–give is give and take is take. You’re really good at dishing out obnoxious behavior, but you could improve a bit in your ability to take it. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/10 "2010-11-14T20:58:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You’ve been a member here for eight friggin’ years and have been completely unaware of the “attack the post, not the poster” standard of conduct? According to **Colibri** , I didn’t attack the poster, but he did. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/11 "2010-11-14T21:09:12Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > According to **Colibri** , I didn’t attack the poster, but he did. Please don’t mischaracterize what I said. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I said specifically that my remark was intended as a comment on your post, not on you. What I have apologized for is being rude in my remarks, not attacking your post per se. On the other hand, in your remarks to **Jackknifed Juggernaut** , you called him “one sorry character,” which was a direct attack on the poster, rather than the post. [QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] You’re really good at dishing out obnoxious behavior, but you could improve a bit in your ability to take it. [/QUOTE] More irony, I guess. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/12 "2010-11-14T21:19:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What I have apologized for is being rude in my remarks, not attacking your post per se. I’m sorry–I thought you had apologized for calling me “stupid” and saying that I “ha[d] no understanding” of baseball. But you’re saying that this was merely rude, and permissible? Please tell me specifically whether I may use these two remarks in my future pposts outside of the Pit, which is where my query was originally focussed. I took your answer to conclude that those two comments were not allowed, but now I I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/13 "2010-11-14T21:40:06Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I’m sorry–I thought you had apologized for calling me “stupid” and saying that I “ha[d] no understanding” of baseball. But you’re saying that this was merely rude, and permissible? I did not call you stupid, as I have clarified. I called your position stupid. As a comment on the post, it was technically within the rules. What I was apologizing for was being uncivil in the phrasing of my remark. Remarks such as “You have no knowledge [on a particular subject]” in my experience are pretty common in GQ (and probably GD). I would not technically regard them as insults, but they may be rude. From the [Registration Agreement:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=423183) > [@](#): > > You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Now, in practice we do allow a good deal of incivility in some forums outside the Pit. How much to allow is largely a judgement call. When a discussion is becoming heated, participants may be asked to dial it back. > [@](#): > > Please tell me specifically whether I may use these two remarks in my future pposts outside of the Pit, which is where my query was originally focussed. I took your answer to conclude that those two comments were not allowed, but now I I’m not sure. You should refrain from being rude to other posters outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/14 "2010-11-14T21:53:00Z")
Okay, just as I thought. I should refrain, but you’re within your rights, merely being rude, to use those words outside the Pit. Got it. Loud and clear. Thanks for confirming. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/15 "2010-11-14T21:54:42Z")
Saying that someone has no understanding of a subject is not the same as calling someone stupid. Ignorance (lack of understand or knowledge) can be remedied by educating them on a subject. Stupid is a state of being and suggests that the person can’t be taught. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/16 "2010-11-14T21:56:49Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Okay, just as I thought. I should refrain, but you’re within your rights, merely being rude, to use those words outside the Pit. Got it. Loud and clear. Thanks for confirming. “Within your rights” doesn’t apply here. You don’t have a “right” to be rude. As I said, if you use such words outside the Pit you may be asked to dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/17 "2010-11-14T23:10:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **Colibri** : You don’t have a “right” to be rude. As I said, if you use such words outside the Pit you may be asked to dial it back. I am curious, **Colibri**. Did any moderator ask you to “dial it back,” or was it PRR who reminded you of the error of your ways? I generally believe that once a person apologizes, that should be the end of it. Anything else is a sort of “debtor’s prison.” But I’m betting that no _moderator_ called you on your indiscretion. And that _is_ a salient point not yet addressed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/18 "2010-11-14T23:32:02Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > But I’m betting that no _moderator_ called you on your indiscretion. If you had put money behind that bet, you’d would be paying out, about now. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/19 "2010-11-14T23:36:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > “Within your rights” doesn’t apply here. You don’t have a “right” to be rude. As I said, if you use such words outside the Pit you may be asked to dial it back. So if I used the words that you used outside of the Pit I might be asked to dial it back, because that’s an unacceptable level of rudeness, but you didn’t break any rule by doing so? Have I got that right now? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/20 "2010-11-15T02:47:11Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I am curious, **Colibri**. Did any moderator ask you to “dial it back,” or was it PRR who reminded you of the error of your ways? I believe that my post was reported by **prr,** as I suggested that he do in the original thread. Once it was reported, we had a discussion in moderation. Different members of the staff expressed different viewpoints on the matter, and I am not going to discuss any details. The discussion was still ongoing when **prr** posted this thread. The decision to respond in the way that I did was my own. > [@](#): > > I generally believe that once a person apologizes, that should be the end of it. Anything else is a sort of “debtor’s prison.” Yet you brought it up anyway. > [@](#): > > But I’m betting that no _moderator_ called you on your indiscretion. You lose. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636.md?page=2)