# Is "you have no understanding" okay out of the Pit? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 14, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636 "2010-11-14T15:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/41 "2010-11-17T12:37:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No you don’t. However, you are complaining about board policy, so it’s fair to ask you what you think board policy actually should be. Asking a question in ATMB is “complaining”? I guess I’m a troublemaker, then. > [@Colibri](#): > > And your complaint seems inconsistent with your behavior. No, my own feelings about board policy are irrelevant for the purposes of this ATMB thread. I was asking what official policy is, and using your tone, specifically two phrases you used, to see if those phrases are out of line. I have not received any guidance whatsoever in regard to those specific phrases, as I predicted, though I have gotten myelf singled out for some special “Mod hit list” for asking for clarification. This is a warning, I think, for other people puzzled by Mod hypocrisy–don’t raise specifics in ATMB, and especially don’t persist if you get vague or confusing instructions because you will find yourself on a special Mod hit list, and be given a very short (and very subjective) leash for your future posts. Way to promote use of ATMB, **Colibri**! I believe this is known as a “chilling effect.” > [@Colibri](#): > > it’s fair to ask you what you think board policy actually should be. And I invited you to open up a fresh thread dedicated to that question, if you were genuinely interested in learning what I (and others) thought about this subject. But I requested that you not hijack this thread with irrelevancies to distract from my initial question. So, no, it’s not fair–it’s a hijack. > [@Colibri](#): > > 1. Posters should be allowed to be rude to one another. Therefore your remarks to **Jackknifed Juggernaut** were OK. However, this would seem to be inconsistent with your objecting to my post. I never said that it was okay to be rude to him. I did indicate that I would be happy to discuss my rudeness, or the lack thereof, in a separate thread. I was pretty rude to him, though I thought I might have been within the bounds of civility, given the trash-talk permitted in heated sporting discussions. If you wanted to specify unacceptable language, I’d be open to hearing it, provided of course that it didn’t apply only to me, or only to non-Yankee fans, or something of the like. > [@Colibri](#): > > You should be allowed to insult other posters, but other posters should not be allowed to be rude to you. This seems to be the most accurate summary of your position in this thread. It seems that way to you, but then again you’re not capable of looking at this in a neutral manner. I am asking a question about YOUR behavior, and whether those two phrases are considered beyond the borders of civility. This question in ATMB has nothing to do with how I treat other posters (except hypothetically) or how they treat me. > [@Colibri](#): > > Since you don’t seem to be getting the concept here, and are asking for guidance, I’m going to make this a moderator instruction: > > **[Moderator Instruction]** > > You, **pseudotriton ruber ruber** , are instructed to be civil to other posters on this board in any forum on this board outside the Pit. Failure to abide by this may result in a warning or suspension. Determination of whether or not you are behaving in a civil manner will be at the discretion of the staff. I thought this instruction applied to everyone, not just me. Am I supposed to behave in some sort of super-civil manner from this point on? Am I allowed to participate in future Game Room threads in the customary tone freely used by posters there, or is there some sort of special danger for me to get into arguments in the Game room now, or elsewhere? Have I been put on special notice, as I suspect, that remarks from me that would be tolerable for other posters are now prohibited for me? Specifically, and not for the first time, may I inform other posters outside the Pit that I think they have no understanding of the subject they’re discussing? A much more elegant solution to this whole issue, in my view, would have been for you to state “I, **Colibri** , was out of line in saying that you had no understanding of the subject. If I had seen a poster saying that, I probably would have warned him to maintain a civil tone.” That would have been quite clear, and left no doubt as to my simple ATMB query, though you might have required a little personal counseling for the bruising your ego would have endured. It’s too bad your ego had to come into this discussion at all, especially if you think about after you calm down, and realize that of all the things you might say about me, having no understanding of baseball is pretty low on the list of objectionable characteristics I display. You might not agree with my opinions or my taste, but I think even my most antagonistic interloquiturs, among whom I must now include you, would grant me that I know some things about baseball, so your comment is clearly inaccurate as well as possibly uncivil, and you ought to have no problem retracting it. Except for that whole ego issue, of course. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/42 "2010-11-17T15:48:01Z")
Man, I thought the _Pit_ was a rough place to hang out… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/43 "2010-11-17T16:58:30Z")
Each forum has its function. The Pit is where you announce to someone \*else \*that they’re an asshole… ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/44 "2010-11-17T17:09:32Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Each forum has its function. The Pit is where you announce to someone \*else \*that they’re an asshole… **Colibri** , may I assume that the above-cited post takes an appropriate tone outside of a Pit thread? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/45 "2010-11-17T17:27:55Z")
This thread title is becoming funnier and funnier… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/46 "2010-11-17T18:25:24Z")
How about some advice from someone who grew up in the country, **prr**. 1. When shoveling manure, it works best when you stand on the side of the pile instead of the middle. 2. Flinging it outward instead of straight up will work out better in the long run. 3. Reflinging the same manure over and over again won’t advance your cause-know when to quit. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/47 "2010-11-17T18:39:25Z")
nm. Just, nm. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/48 "2010-11-17T18:45:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Zoe](#): > > > > But I’m betting that no _moderator_ called you on your indiscretion. > > If you had put money behind that bet, you’d would be paying out, about now. 😃 > [@Colibri](#): > > I believe that my post was reported by **prr,** as I suggested that he do in the original thread. Once it was reported, we had a discussion in moderation. Different members of the staff expressed different viewpoints on the matter, and I am not going to discuss any details. The discussion was still ongoing when **prr** posted this thread. I think the main problem we have been seeing recently is this: \*\*Scenario 1: \*\*Regular poster says something that steps over the line. Moderator sees it and publicly admonishes them (with anything as mild as a suggestion to tone it down all the way up to an official Warning). \*\*Scenario 2: \*\*Member of the staff (mod, admin, SDSAB) says something that steps over the line. While it may be discussed behind the scenes, the only people commenting on it in public are regular board members, which may or may not lead the staff member to apologize. Rarely, if ever, is their behavior admonished directly by another staff member in public. We don’t have access to the staff forums. We can’t see what you guys talk about behind the scenes. This can sometimes lead to the impression of “privilege,” in its original meaning of “private law”–different sets of rules for different people. If that’s how you want to run things, that’s your right–but people might find it helpful if you’d concretly acknowledge that disciplinary actions against board staff are not and will not be public. Or that you give a longer leash to people you feel have contributed the most to the community. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/49 "2010-11-17T19:36:24Z")
I think the main problems we have been seeing recently is this: There are posters that cannot tell the difference between a slight snark intended to guide behavior and a full on Pit-worthy attack. There are posters who are willing to flail away forever rather than accept that they might be wrong. There are posters who scream to high heaven that they are being oppressed by moderators and/or administrators, while indulging in behavior that would never be tolerated on most other boards. The cry rings out, “Help!! I’m being oppressed by the corrupt Powers That Be!”…and yet the poster isn’t banned, and the thread isn’t closed and/or “disappeared” by those same corrupt Powers That Be. Something just doesn’t add up here, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/50 "2010-11-17T19:45:58Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > **Colibri** , may I assume that the above-cited post takes an appropriate tone outside of a Pit thread? I can see why mods tend to ignore these types of posts. “What about _this_ word?” “What about _that_ phrase?” “What if I said it _this_ way instead of _that_ way, huh?” My ghod, even if the mods bowed to your silly request and listed all the variations of all the words and phrases that were appropriate in each forum at which times by which people, the first thing you would do is come up with something not on the list and post it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/51 "2010-11-17T19:52:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There are posters that cannot tell the difference between a slight snark intended to guide behavior and a full on Pit-worthy attack. What does that have anything to do with what’s being discussed in this instance? At all? \*\*Colibri \*\*wasn’t speaking to \*\*prr \*\*as a moderator when he said the things \*\*prr \*\*is objecting to. There was no “guidance.” ETA: I also fail to see how \*anything \*in your post was helpful or intended to address the topic of this particular thread. If you want to complain about what you see as a bunch of whiners, go to the existing ATMB complaining about complaints or start something new in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/52 "2010-11-17T19:54:13Z")
What’s silly about citing a specific post ( **Colibri** ’s post in the linked thread) and asking if that language is or is not permissible? It’s a pretty simple question. If it’s permissible for **Colibri** but impermissible for others, that’s an interesting answer. I’m not sure what the official status of “You have no understanding of…” but it seems to be that you can say that to someone, but only if you’re a Mod. That’s what I’m taking from it anyway. That, and the uselessness of asking questions in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/53 "2010-11-17T19:59:12Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Of course I expect a non-answer such as “it all depends on context,” because I understand that there is one set of rules for Mods to follow, even when they not posting as Mods, and another set for such lowly posters as myself, but I would like to see something on the record about this. > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > If it’s permissible for **Colibri** but impermissible for others, that’s an interesting answer. I’m not sure what the official status of “You have no understanding of…” but it seems to be that you can say that to someone, but only if you’re a Mod. That’s what I’m taking from it anyway. Seems to me what you’re getting out of this is what you brought into it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/54 "2010-11-17T19:59:34Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > What does that have anything to do with what’s being discussed in this instance? At all? \*\*Colibri \*\*wasn’t speaking to \*\*prr \*\*as a moderator when he said the things \*\*prr \*\*is objecting to. There was no “guidance.” > > ETA: I also fail to see how \*anything \*in your post was helpful or intended to address the topic of this particular thread. If you want to complain about what you see as a bunch of whiners, go to the existing ATMB complaining about complaints or start something new in the Pit. Because this thread is for those who support the opinion of the OP, not “ass-kissers”, right? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/55 "2010-11-17T20:02:19Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > What’s silly about citing a specific post ( **Colibri** ’s post in the linked thread) and asking if that language is or is not permissible? It’s a pretty simple question. > > If it’s permissible for **Colibri** but impermissible for others, that’s an interesting answer. I’m not sure what the official status of “You have no understanding of…” but it seems to be that you can say that to someone, but only if you’re a Mod. That’s what I’m taking from it anyway. > > That, and the uselessness of asking questions in ATMB. I’m trying to follow this thread but the problem I’m having is that the question you asked was answered in post #3 of this thread, quoted below. > [@Colibri](#): > > As I said in the thread, my comment was directed at the content of your post rather than at you as a poster, and was technically within the rules. However, I also acknowledge that it was not within the bounds of civility that we would like to aspire to on this board. I hereby apologize for being rude to you in that thread. He said his post was within the rules because it was directed at post content rather than the poster. He acknowledged, though, that it was rude and clearly apologized. When pressed he said that yes, you would be asked to tone it down if you spoke that way, citing the registration agreement. The clear implication is that we are all bound by the registration agreement, so while he was speaking directly to you, it could be generalized to all posters. But I think most of us knew that. When a conversation gets to heated we can be asked to tone it down, but that does not mean a specific rule was broken. Unless I am missing something, but frankly I’ve asked that an no one has answered, so I think I’m getting it ok. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/56 "2010-11-17T20:03:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Because this thread is for those who support the opinion of the OP, not “ass-kissers”, right? No, this thread is for you to address _this thread_. You’re not addressing this thread when you talk about things like “There are posters who are willing to flail away forever rather than accept that they might be wrong.” If you want to argue about why \*\*Colibri \*\*was right to use the words he did, go for it. But if you want to keep bringing up more insulting strawmen, be my guest. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/57 "2010-11-17T20:07:24Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > No, this thread is for you to address _this thread_. You’re not addressing this thread when you talk about things like “There are posters who are willing to flail away forever rather than accept that they might be wrong.” If you want to argue about why \*\*Colibri \*\*was right to use the words he did, go for it. > > But if you want to keep bringing up more insulting strawmen, be my guest. After the question was answered in post #3, I thought this was just another in a long line of general “Let’s bitch at the mods and see how far we can go” threads. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/58 "2010-11-17T20:20:10Z")
You mean the post where \*\*Colibri \*\*apologized for being rude… and then undercut the apology by spending the other 90% of the post engaging in tu quoque? This also doesn’t address the heart of the problem as I see it: when site staff engage in behavior that approaches or crosses the gray line of “acceptable,” they are never\* publicly admonished. When they do apologize, it is always\*\* after one or more regular users of the site object to what they’ve said. \*I can’t think of any recent examples. If you have one, please share it. \*\*Again, based on my own recollection; counterexamples appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/59 "2010-11-17T20:44:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > After the question was answered in post #3… The question in the title wasn’t even touched on in post #3, the vast majority of which was spent (as \*\*SFG \*\*correctly notes) on “tu quoques,” rather than addressing the specific examples I was asking about. I still have no idea whether I can say that another poster “has no understanding of” the subject under discussion, if I’ll be admonished for saying that in so many words, whether I can’t say it but \*\*Colibri \*\*can, whether anyone is liable to be admonished for saying that outside the Pit, and I’ve asked for clarity on these specific quiestions so often, I can only conclude that it is a deliberate act of obfuscation not to answer “yes” or “no.” ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636/60 "2010-11-17T21:34:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You have no understanding. No, **you!** _You you you you you!_ 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-you-have-no-understanding-okay-out-of-the-pit/560636.md?page=4)