Is ZzzQuil a Good Idea?

[Trinopus]

@Bosstone

I’ve been using Zzzquil occasionally for the last three weeks, and it absolutely works, too . . . . It’s not a complete knockout potion; my phone went off around 2 am one night and jolted me awake. . . . When I need it though, it’s excellent. . . .

Thank you! This was the kind of response I was hoping for.

@Sudden_Kestrel

I can’t imagine drinking anything similar to Nyquil for anything less serious than bubonic plague. If Zzzquil tastes anything like its predecessor, I’d be up puking all night. I can get diphenhydramine in a much less revolting form, TYVM.

I haven’t tasted it; can anyone here tell us if it does, in fact, taste like NyQuil? (I use NyQuil when I’m really nasty sick; the flavor is unpleasant, but being that sick is so much more unpleasant!)

@monstro

You are wrong for assuming that your occasional problems with sleeping give you some kind of special insight on treating insomnia.

You are wrong for assuming that I have problems with sleeping, and you are dead wrong and really foolish for thinking that I think I have any kind of special insight. I started this thread to obtain opinions about a product. “In My Humble Opinion.”

. . . I have no idea if ZzzQuil is a good idea. But as someone who has just had to reluctantly get back on clonazapem after suffering through several months of sleeping difficulties, I’d probably prefer taking something like that over a benzo.

Thank you; that’s actually helpful.

@WhyNot

**ExcitedIdiot **got it. It’s about taking a recognized product people use in a not-safe way (NyQuil) and taking out the dangerous part, repackaging it and sticking it next to the bottles of what people are used to buying. It’s brilliant, and yes, I do think it will save lives.

Okay! That makes sense. I never would have thought of it that way, and so this thread has served a useful purpose. Thank you for educating me.

As for the safety of antihistamines for occasional sleeplessness? Never seen a study suggesting it’s not safe. I’d be wary of using it too often, simply because, again, power of the mind. It may not be physically habit forming to most people, but it may train them that they can’t sleep without it.

This is one of my concerns with over-the-counter sleep aids in the first place. I’m not totally sure there should be such things at all. Again, people with serious problems might benefit from prescription meds, but ordinary sleeplessness doesn’t seem to me to rise to this level. I also worry about a vicious cycle of counteractants: people taking a sleep aid, then a waking aid, then a sleep aid, then a waking aid…

But my SO suffers from horrible insomnia, and has been through the litany of prescription meds and sleep studies and the whole ball of wax. I’d be delighted if something OTC worked for him. Everything works for him for about three nights. Then nothing works for him, including barbiturates. It sucks…and insomnia is a huge risk factor for heart attacks (he’s had one already) and strokes (knockwood no.)

Ouch! Good luck to him (and to you.) I hope medical science advances (fast!) to provide a useful treatment.

@Mama_Zappa

Bad idea, but mainly because the active ingredient is available in generic products for a lot less money.

Another insight I wouldn’t have arrived at without your help here. Thank you!

From a medical standpoint: sure, why not use it (or whatever) for the occasional bout of insomnia. If it works, of course; it makes some people paradoxically hyper, it just makes me mean). If it’s more than occasional, then yeah, see a doctor.

And this, too: thank you. This answers my real question.

To everyone else who posted, thank you. I know that “Just Asking Questions” is sometimes used as a fallacious manner of disguising an attack, and at least two posters seem to have mistaken my question for that fallacy. They, however, are the ones who have erroneously leaped to a (wrong!) conclusion. I opened this as an opinion question, and, with the exception of those two responders, I have gotten sensible, wise, intelligent, and knowledgeable answers. THANK YOU!

[Imago]

I know this thread is mostly finished but this is something I haven’t seen mentioned yet.

As someone who googled the hell out of diphenhydramine before buying any, I have to say the potential for prolonged abuse of it is nearly nihil. Tolerance builds up extremely fast for many folks (like, in a matter of days) and can take two or three weeks to go back down. And once you’ve built a lot of tolerance, no amount of upping your dose is going to get you the sleeping effect you were hoping for.

If I cut a 50mg capsule of diph in half, I can take the other half the next night and it will work. But after those two nights I’d need the full pill to get the same effect, and the night after that one I’m screwed.

It’s also a lot harder to hurt yourself with a diphenhydramine overdose than with, like, an Ambien overdose. Or with using alcohol to get to sleep (bad idea! Bad bad idea!), or as previously mentioned the mixed cold meds.

Of course, it was also mentioned that diphenhydramine may not even be the stuff in NyQuil. I don’t know; I use generic stuff.

[Bosstone]

@Trinopus

I haven’t tasted it; can anyone here tell us if it does, in fact, taste like NyQuil? (I use NyQuil when I’m really nasty sick; the flavor is unpleasant, but being that sick is so much more unpleasant!)

It’s a different flavor, “berry”, but it’s that same cloying mediciny taste that people hate about NyQuil. Personally I like it. That plus the tinge of alcohol makes me feel like there’s substance to it that isn’t present in a pill or gelcap.

Maybe it’s just a placebo effect and I’m fooling myself into falling asleep. Far as I’m concerned, if it works, it works.

[Unauthorized_Cinnamon]

@Trinopus

Is this a good idea?

Fuck yeah.

Unisom (doxylamine succinate) is even better.

Try waking up at 3am, unable to get back to sleep, for a few days and see how your attitude shifts on this.

[lazybratsche]

@Ravenman

There are several references above to NyQuil (not ZzzQuil) having diphenhydramine. I do not believe this to be correct, as it is not listed as an active ingredient: cite, click on “package information.”

So it seems to me that the only similarity between NyQuil and ZzzQuil is the marketing, really.

Hmm, you’re correct. Nyquil has doxylamine, not diphenhydramine. They’re both similar drugs though – first gen antihistamines with a major sedative side effect. Or sedatives with an antihistamine side effect, depending on the packaging.

[Ambivalid]

If antihistamines are such great sleep-aids, then why does Nyquil need to add all that alcohol? I’ve always been under the impression that the alcohol was the real ‘knock-out’ punch delivered by Nyquil; in concert with the other ingredients. Take away the liquor and you just have some placebo syrup (IMHO).

[WhyNot]

My bad. I’ve never actually bought the name brand stuff, and I generally try to buy only single-medication stuff, so I don’t have to worry about ODing on mixtures or treating symptoms I don’t have. (Major exception: Theraflu, the kind in the little packets you mix with hot water. That stuff is awesomesauce, far beyond what each ingredient does on paper. Don’t try to talk me out of my placebo.) I knew NyQuil has some antihistamine, and assumed it was the most common and cheapest. I should have checked before posting. :smack:

[missouri65]

@Trinopus

Are benadryl gel-caps a good idea?

This thread may have run its course, but for what it’s worth, both my cancer-patient uncle and my 90+ year old grandmother were advised by doctors to take Benadryl as a sleep aid. For my uncle, it was the recommended (for children) dose of the children’s liquid formula. I don’t know what the dosage was for my grandmother. It may not be good for everyone, but at least two doctors out there thought it was a good idea for a couple of folks with already-weakened systems.

[Bosstone]

@Ambivalid

If antihistamines are such great sleep-aids, then why does Nyquil need to add all that alcohol? I’ve always been under the impression that the alcohol was the real ‘knock-out’ punch delivered by Nyquil; in concert with the other ingredients. Take away the liquor and you just have some placebo syrup (IMHO).

Not that I’m any kind of expert, but I would figure it’s the combination of medication and alcohol that knocks you out more effectively than either one alone would.

[WhyNot]

If you’re drinking enough NyQuil for the alcohol to have a sedating effect, you’re definitely not following the label directions.

It is an INACTIVE ingredient. It’s there because at least one of the active ingredients is alcohol soluble, and the alcohol holds it in suspension. It is not there to promote sleepiness in any way whatsoever, or it would be in the ACTIVE ingredient section, by labeling law.

I can’t find anything on NyQuil’s site about how much alcohol is in there, but sources on the web claim 10% or 25%. The dose for an adult is 2 T. That’s the same as “a shot”, unless it’s less (some people use 1.5 oz for “a shot”). So we’re talking about a shot of wine or a shot of Captain Morgan’s. If you’re getting sleepy on a single shot of Captain Morgan’s, I’ve got a sorority house full of gullible girls to sell you…

[Ambivalid]

@WhyNot

If you’re drinking enough NyQuil for the alcohol to have a sedating effect, you’re definitely not following the label directions.

It is an INACTIVE ingredient. It’s there because at least one of the active ingredients is alcohol soluble, and the alcohol holds it in suspension. It is not there to promote sleepiness in any way whatsoever, or it would be in the ACTIVE ingredient section, by labeling law.

I can’t find anything on NyQuil’s site about how much alcohol is in there, but sources on the web claim 10% or 25%. The dose for an adult is 2 T. That’s the same as “a shot”, unless it’s less (some people use 1.5 oz for “a shot”). So we’re talking about a shot of wine or a shot of Captain Morgan’s. If you’re getting sleepy on a single shot of Captain Morgan’s, I’ve got a sorority house full of gullible girls to sell you…

I said “in concert” with the other ingredients; meaning that perhaps the alcohol, when combined with the other ingredients in the product, delivers a stronger punch than if consumed alone.

[WhyNot]

@Ambivalid

I said “in concert” with the other ingredients; meaning that perhaps the alcohol, when combined with the other ingredients in the product, delivers a stronger punch than if consumed alone.

If it has any physiological effect, it’s not an inactive ingredient.

1. What is an inactive ingredient?

According to 21 CFR 210.3(b)(8), an inactive ingredient is any component of a drug product other than the active ingredient. Only inactive ingredients in the final dosage forms of drug products are in this database.

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2. What is an active ingredient?

According to 21 CFR 210.3(b)(7), an active ingredient is any component of a drug product intended to furnish pharmacological activity or other direct effect in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, or to affect the structure or any function of the body of humans or other animals. Active ingredients include those components of the product that may undergo chemical change during the manufacture of the drug product and be present in the drug product in a modified form intended to furnish the specified activity or effect.

<snip>

6. Can an inactive ingredient ever be considered an active ingredient?

The Inactive Ingredients Database contains inactive ingredients specifically intended as such by the manufacturer. Inactive ingredients can also be considered active ingredients under certain circumstances, according to the definition of an active ingredient given in 21 CFR 210.3(b)(7). Alcohol is a good example of an ingredient that may be considered either active or inactive depending on the product formulation.

Inactive Ingredients in Approved Drug Products Search: Frequently Asked Questions | FDA

So, while, yes, alcohol can be an active ingredient sometimes, if it’s listed as an inactive ingredient, it cannot act as an active ingredient.

[Ambivalid]

@WhyNot

If it has any physiological effect, it’s not an inactive ingredient.

Inactive Ingredients in Approved Drug Products Search: Frequently Asked Questions | FDA

So, while, yes, alcohol can be an active ingredient sometimes, if it’s listed as an inactive ingredient, it cannot act as an active ingredient.

I see. So I went to find out why the alcohol was then included and this is what I found. Apparently it’s used as a solvent which blends the three active ingredients together. Ignorance fought.

[WhyNot]

@Ambivalid

I see. So I went to find out why the alcohol was then included and this is what I found. Apparently it’s used as a solvent which blends the three active ingredients together. Ignorance fought.

Yay! We’ve both learned something in this thread! How very Doperish of us.

[MyMack_1]

Hell if it worked for me I’d take it instead of the demon drug Ambien. It’d be safer.

[Trinopus]

I was a bit worried by the word “intended” in the definition of “active ingredient.” If the ingredient isn’t intended to have a physiological effect…but does anyway…what then? The word seems to be out-of-place in a scientific sense, although it has very obvious utility in a legal sense.

[kayT]

Just so everyone is aware, sometimes diphenhydramine has a real rebound effect; that is, if you take it for several days in a row, it seriously wires you up. (I guess for some people it even has this effect the first time it’s taken.) Not much fun to take your sleepy-pill and suddenly find yourself jumping out of your skin. Why yes, I am speaking from personal experience.

[Senegoid]

@kayT

Just so everyone is aware, sometimes diphenhydramine has a real rebound effect; that is, if you take it for several days in a row, it seriously wires you up. (I guess for some people it even has this effect the first time it’s taken.) Not much fun to take your sleepy-pill and suddenly find yourself jumping out of your skin. Why yes, I am speaking from personal experience.

See, there’s this problem.

In fact, when you buy Benedryl (or other sedating antihistimines) as allergy medicine, doesn’t it always say right on the package: “Caution, may make you sleepy. This effect will diminish after a few days, as your body gets used to the drug” (or words to that effect).

That right there is telling you precisely why diphenhydramine is not a good sleeping aid, other than for occasional and infrequent use. Your CNS quickly adjusts to it and the sleepy effect is more-or-less nullified. Then you will need bigger doses if you keep using it for more than a few days, and when you stop using it, you will have rebound insomnia for a while.

ETA: So, for you chronic insomniacs who have posted above: How does this play out for you? Do you use diphenhydramine regularly, and if so, does it remain effective? Or do you find that it loses its effectiveness when used regularly?

[DrDeth]

@Mama_Zappa

Bad idea, but mainly because the active ingredient is available in generic products for a lot less money. It’s Vicks’ attempt to remarket a cheap, easily-available product in a way that makes them more money - but otherwise does you no more good than anything you can already buy.

.

Right. It is generaly safe, but the generic cost about 1 cent per dose.

[WhyNot]

@Senegoid

See, there’s this problem.

In fact, when you buy Benedryl (or other sedating antihistimines) as allergy medicine, doesn’t it always say right on the package: “Caution, may make you sleepy. This effect will diminish after a few days, as your body gets used to the drug” (or words to that effect).

No, mine doesn’t mention anything about the effect diminishing. This is the first I’ve heard about it. I’m going to have to do some more research into this effect, because I’ve actually got a lot of patients whose doctors have prescribed diphenhydramine as a sleep aid to be taken nightly for long periods of time.

ETA: So, for you chronic insomniacs who have posted above: How does this play out for you? Do you use diphenhydramine regularly, and if so, does it remain effective? Or do you find that it loses its effectiveness when used regularly?

As I mentioned, the SO has found nothing that works past night 3 or 4. That includes diphenhydramine, Ambien, Ativan, trazadone, melatonin, passionflower/skullcap extract, warm milk, counting sheep…so I never considered that it might be a regular flaw of diphenhydramine.