# Isaac Newton a virgin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 29, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833 "2013-07-29T18:13:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/1 "2013-07-29T18:13:59Z")
Cecil slams mathematicians as being the worst in this category in [Was Isaac Newton a virgin? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/957/was-isaac-newton-a-virgin) So I ask you Cece, how many mathematicians have you known? I’ve known plenty of them and, believe me, we are not deficient. Most have the usual complement of wives and children. I have one wife, 3 children and 6 grandchildren, for example. Sure some are gay as are some of any class of people. There is some, fairly thin, evidence that Newton may have a gay lover, a Swiss mathematician who lived with him for a while and then abruptly departed. What that suggests to me is that one or the other made what we today is called a move on the other and there was an abrupt rupture. So probably it was never consummated. ---
**Author:** ![grue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b9bd4f/32.png) [@grue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grue)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/2 "2013-07-29T18:29:29Z")
Also it’s quite possible that he was part of the approximately 1% of the human population that is asexual. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/3 "2013-07-29T19:41:19Z")
You have to understand that since Newton was the only one who understood math and science during his time, that all of nerddom and geekdom was dangerously concentrated in one person. I bet all that spiritualism and alchemy were just his attempts to do ComiCon by himself. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/4 "2013-07-29T19:57:01Z")
[QUOTE=Cecil Adams] What’s tragic is that he may have died a virgin. Not that this is all that unusual. You met many electrical engineers? But mathematicians are probably the worst that way. How the math gene perpetuates itself is one of the mysteries of our age. [/QUOTE] C’mon, Cecil—who else do you expect to be good at multiplying? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/5 "2013-07-29T22:11:22Z")
Adders. Well, if they have a log table. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/6 "2013-07-29T22:22:47Z")
Newton certainly did not like women, probably because his mother abandoned him to go live with a man as a small child (Isaac’s father had died even before he was born), and then, to make things worse, tried to come back into his life when he was teenager, an event to which he apparently reacted very badly. Later on after he was famous, John Locke and some other friends (inasmuch as Newton had friends at all - he didn’t much like most men either) attempted to help find a wife for him, leading him to totally freak out, accusing them of trying to “embroil me with women”, as if that was the worst thing in the world. His relationship with the Swiss Fatio de Duillier certainly has all the hallmarks of a gay affair, with a famous, powerful man (as Newton was by then) hooking up with a young, boy toy, who, although he shared an interest in mathematics, was clearly not only very much the intellectual inferior of Newton, but of most of Newton’s other male associates. Furthermore, their breakup seems to have been very traumatic for Newton. Whether it was consummated or not is a different matter. My guess is de Duillier would have been willing, even if he actually preferred girls. Being Newton’s lover and thus protegé would have been a huge career boost for an ambitious young intellectual. However, even if he really was sexually attracted, Newton may well have been too much in denial, and too guilt ridden, to actually indulge. My guess would be that either de Duillier came on to Newton and was rebuffed in horror, or that they actually did do something, and Newton wsa overcome by guilt and remorse the next morning, chucked de Duillier out, and never let himself get too close to an attractive young man again. So I would say, probably either a lifelong virgin, or did it with a man once and once only. Oh well, it means you have a lot of time for math and physics and stuff (not to mention alchemy, theology, and eccentric Biblical exegesis). ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/7 "2013-07-30T02:40:46Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Cecil slams mathematicians as being the worst in this category in [Was Isaac Newton a virgin? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/957/was-isaac-newton-a-virgin) > **So I ask you Cece, how many mathematicians have you known? I’ve known plenty of them and, believe me, we are not deficient. Most have the usual complement of wives and children. I have one wife, 3 children and 6 grandchildren,** for example. Sure some are gay as are some of any class of people. I’d suggest that the ability of a mathematician to multiply wasn’t in dispute, and the ability of your children to do so was irrelevant. What was being questioned was the ability of a mathematician to attract a mate in the first place without requiring chloroform and rope. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/8 "2013-07-30T06:30:50Z")
So, you are postulating “Perhaps mathematicians are only able to multiply via chloroform and rope (i.e., rape), as how else could they possibly attract a mate?”? **Hari Seldon** ’s response is on point, in a way which yours does not seem to be. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/9 "2013-07-30T16:44:50Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > I bet all that spiritualism and alchemy were just his attempts to do ComiCon by himself. Snerk. > [@Indistinguishable](#): > > **Hari Seldon** ’s response is on point, in a way which yours does not seem to be. Pointing out many mathematicians seem to be married at similar rates to other professions is certainly on point. Mentioning children and grandchildren seems less so. I suppose, given Cecils joke about math genes getting passed on, it’s technically on point. While **stu** **magpie** ’s phrasing leaves a bit to be desired, the intent of his remark was essentially to rephrase what Cecil stated, that mathematicians are not the best with the social graces. Humor, it is a difficult concept. That just shows it’s not just mathematicians that need help. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/10 "2013-07-30T17:15:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Adders. Well, if they have a log table. You can do it on a metal table if you have to. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/11 "2013-07-30T18:11:05Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > While **stu** **magpie** ’s phrasing leaves a bit to be desired, the intent of his remark was essentially to rephrase what Cecil stated, that mathematicians are not the best with the social graces. Humor, it is a difficult concept. I get the joke, but **Hari** ’s purpose in the OP seems to be to implore us to question the accuracy of the stereotype in which this joke is rooted… I myself have wondered why this stereotype is given such repetition, given that my experience with mathematicians in my adult life has not generally been that they are so much more socially awkward or romantically frustrated than any other group of adults (with all due deference to the fact that, as in any group, some are). ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/12 "2013-07-30T22:12:26Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > …his mother abandoned him to go live with a man as a small child :eek: Isn’t that illegal? ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/13 "2013-07-31T05:58:12Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Snerk. > > Pointing out many mathematicians seem to be married at similar rates to other professions is certainly on point. Mentioning children and grandchildren seems less so. I suppose, given Cecils joke about math genes getting passed on, it’s technically on point. > > While **stu** **magpie** ’s phrasing leaves a bit to be desired, the intent of his remark was essentially to rephrase what Cecil stated, that mathematicians are not the best with the social graces. Humor, it is a difficult concept. That just shows it’s not just mathematicians that need help. Ta for that, intended humour doesn’t always translate well ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Comstock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gordon\_Comstock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Comstock)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/14 "2013-07-31T11:05:45Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > What was being questioned was the ability of a mathematician to attract a mate in the first place without requiring chloroform and rope. There are of course some notable exceptions: Bertrand Russell springs to mind. I think he was a bit of a goat. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/15 "2013-07-31T11:23:52Z")
Does anyone have any actual statistics on the social characteristics of mathematicians, as opposed to endless random anecdotes? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/16 "2013-07-31T12:23:03Z")
> [@Gordon\_Comstock](#): > > There are of course some notable exceptions: Bertrand Russell springs to mind. I think he was a bit of a goat. When he was on the prowl, it was girdles all the way down! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/17 "2013-07-31T19:21:52Z")
## I don’t think there is any real cite. I can speculate the reason for the stereotype. All of the geeky fields kinda share the reputation. But certainly in college, when I looked around at the “geek” majors, one way to categorize people was how esoteric and how practical a field of study was. Engineering might be laden with frustrating concepts and a bit of math formula, but at least the goal was something productive. Whereas math majors were all about the formula\*. So from that perspective - “I may be an engineer, but at least I’m not a math major” kinda says the perspective. \*Okay, so math majors weren’t about formula, they were exploring concepts and relationships and whatnot. Or something. What do I know, I was an engineer. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/18 "2013-07-31T22:54:36Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Does anyone have any actual statistics on the social characteristics of mathematicians, as opposed to endless random anecdotes? No one has been able to watch a mathematician in their natural habitat without being killed. By boredom. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/19 "2013-08-01T00:15:41Z")
I suspect that mathematics is a lot more interesting than whatever you do. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833/20 "2013-08-01T01:00:25Z")
Well, maybe so, but it is hardly a _spectator_ sport, which was the point, I think. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isaac-newton-a-virgin/664833.md?page=2)