# “ISIL isn’t Islamic”???? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286 "2014-09-12T14:10:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/221 "2014-09-30T13:50:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How does one say TL;DR in Arabic? Google Translate gives me this for “The text is too long. I did not read it.”: > [@](#): > > النص طويل جدا. > أنا لم أقرأها. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/222 "2014-09-30T14:13:48Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > They went on to say: > > “And the Grand Mufti of Egypt who said we were un-Islamic, his circumcision was performed unskillfully! And the Grand Muftis of Saudi Arabia and Turkey who each pronounced our actions to be contradicting Islam, they are tools of the Jews! Saudi Arabia loves the Jews! And the Organization of Islamic Countries, representing 57 Muslim-majority nations who said we were perverting Islam, well…those 57 countries are all tools of the American Imperialists whose foreskin is pale and cowardly. And the 120 religious scholars who wrote to us in classical Arabic refuting our position point-by-point, well, they all went to centuries old world-famous centers of scholarship and don’t know the truth we know in our guts that was taught to us at some donkey college in the middle of nowhere.” It’s actually a pretty standard debate tactic to focus on the least credible of your adversaries. By drawing attention to Obama and Kerry, they hope to draw attention away from the more legitimate Islamic scholars who have denounced them. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/223 "2014-09-30T14:15:32Z")
Oh definitely. They are sadly pretty clever with their propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/224 "2014-09-30T15:14:50Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Those IS fools sure do seem to have an unhealthy fascination with penises. And donkeys. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/225 "2014-09-30T15:23:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And donkeys. Aha! It’s a code. I recall from my Army days that one particular piece of equipment used for pouring fuel from a can into a gas tank was referred to as “donkey dick”. I never encountered one that actually worked. So basically, the IS admit to being useless. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/226 "2014-09-30T16:02:50Z")
So the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria _is_ in fact Islamic?? NO WAY DUDE! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/227 "2014-09-30T16:11:48Z")
The Islamic State is neither Islamic nor a state. Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/228 "2014-09-30T19:51:54Z")
Nor are they Scottish. Not really, anyway. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/229 "2014-09-30T23:13:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Islamic State is neither Islamic nor a state. Discuss. Ah, the old Holy Roman Empire quandary - three lies in one ! ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/230 "2014-10-01T06:03:22Z")
That ISIS response is classic. My eyes kept glazing over as I read it, so boringly liturgical in that inimitable ulema way. That original “Open Letter” by the 120 scholars was pretty lame too. It clearly wasn’t designed to be read but rather to be referred to; pretty much all their points were misleading at best. Still, it was interesting to see as a kind of birth of new norms. I imagine it will be pointed to in the future with increasing authoritativeness by establishment types. President Obama dug his heels in with his comments about ISIS being against God at the UN. He also caused a backlash among many Muslims by saying that Muslim communities need to more vigorously push back on ISIS’s ideology. It’s really frustrating to see him paint himself into a corner on this. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/231 "2014-10-01T06:40:12Z")
It seems to me that he’s starting to find himself as a leader. Boldness is needed in this battle. He’s not painting himself into a corner, he’s throwing down the gauntlet. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/232 "2014-10-01T06:48:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It seems to me that he’s starting to find himself as a leader. Boldness is needed in this battle. He’s not painting himself into a corner, he’s throwing down the gauntlet. Who is the bold leader? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/233 "2014-10-01T07:11:11Z")
I’m not saying he’s a bold leader, just that he’s demonstrating uncharacteristic boldness right now. He’s certainly on his way to figuring out how to do this job. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/234 "2014-10-01T13:15:18Z")
> [@nani](#): > > President Obama dug his heels in with his comments about ISIS being against God at the UN. He also caused a backlash among many Muslims by saying that Muslim communities need to more vigorously push back on ISIS’s ideology. It’s really frustrating to see him paint himself into a corner on this. What is frustrating about telling the truth? Why should we cower from their blatant Islamism? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/235 "2014-10-01T14:17:45Z")
“Blatant Islamism”? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/236 "2014-10-01T15:00:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Blatant Islamism”? Take it up with them. If you want to know what they will say see post 217 and 218… ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/237 "2014-10-01T21:11:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It seems to me that he’s starting to find himself as a leader. Boldness is needed in this battle. He’s not painting himself into a corner, he’s throwing down the gauntlet. ISIS is a symptom of a larger problem. The US is actually doing some things to address the larger problem (that norms in many Islamic countries fuel oppression and revolt) but we are also contributing to it too. Unfortunately, in these speeches President Obama is doing more of the latter than the former. Acting like George W. Bush is not the kind of boldness that is helpful here. > [@Stringbean](#): > > What is frustrating about telling the truth? > > Why should we cower from their blatant Islamism? What true thing did President Obama say? If ISIS has nothing to do with Islam and the vast majority of Muslims already reject ISIS and teach peace, why call out Muslim communities? What more could they do? And are we really comfortable with President Obama essentially saying, ‘make sure your people are more orthodox Muslims’? Especially when he’s saying it to representatives of Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Mauritania, Egypt, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/238 "2014-10-01T21:40:16Z")
Obama is just giving these other countries the benefit of the doubt. And believe me, there’s a lot of doubt. We’ve all heard the stories of people dancing in the streets in several Muslim countries when the planes hit on 9/11. It’s hard not to paint Islam with a broad brush when Muslim countries and clerics don’t loudly, clearly condemn terrorist acts. Especially those countries in the vicinity, potential targets of ISIS, should be first in line to condemn them, volunteer resources, fighters, front line action sort of thing. They’re stepping up, but kind of begrudgingly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/239 "2014-10-01T23:59:02Z")
We spent Billions and Billions of dollars over 6+ years to train the Iraqi army, and now we’re going to start over again? Only this time we’re going to get it right!!! :rolleyes: And we’re going to train the FSA, which has about 1/5 the number of fighters as ISIS has, and they’re not going to use that training and monetary assistance to fight their real enemy, Assad? Ugh. This whole thing stinks. Obama’s “leadership” here is reacting to a few beheadings and telling us that it was an intelligence failure that he underestimated ISIS’s strength and the IDF’s weakness. You can’t just kill all the disaffected Sunni Arabs in the area. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286/240 "2014-10-02T00:12:08Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Obama is just giving these other countries the benefit of the doubt. And believe me, there’s a lot of doubt. > > We’ve all heard the stories of people dancing in the streets in several Muslim countries when the planes hit on 9/11. It’s hard not to paint Islam with a broad brush when Muslim countries and clerics don’t loudly, clearly condemn terrorist acts. > > Especially those countries in the vicinity, potential targets of ISIS, should be first in line to condemn them, volunteer resources, fighters, front line action sort of thing. They’re stepping up, but kind of begrudgingly. I don’t think the “dancing in the streets” thing happened outside of East Jerusalem, and even there it seemed to have been fairly isolated. “Reap what you sow” criticism was around but hardly limited to Muslims. Muslims do regularly condemn terrorist acts. It’s unsurprising, considering that they are the targets for most of them. Unfortunately, terrorism is not the only or even the major source of violence in most places in the world. Even in the US, I think for a lot of people “what to do when I meet a cop” is a more pressing worry in their minds than “what to do when I meet a Klansman.” On your last paragraph, well, you won’t catch me defending those countries. Would be interesting to see how the world would react to Iran intervening against IS though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isil-isn-t-islamic/698286.md?page=13)