# ISIS in the Middle East is growing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473 "2014-06-10T14:45:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/221 "2014-07-03T01:54:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You are suggesting the insane idea that we recognize ISIL as a sovereign state and then we start carpet bombing them. Shoot first and ask questions later-- “Light them up” if we see a US vehicle. You keep using the word “we”. I say let Iraq have their civil war and “we” stay out of it. > > If you want to lay out the case for the US to get involved in Iraq Civil War II, knock yourself out. Convince us why we should take sides, what it’s going to mean to “win”, how we keep this confined to Iraq (and not include Syria), and how we go about attacking a nation that we just recognized as sovereign. Lay out the case for all of us to see. (_“Light them up” if we see a US vehicle._) That is not what I wrote. You have left out ‘stolen’ and a reference to military vehicles. While you are fixing that, can you say that the IS terrorist government threat is now or will continue to be contained within the borders that they have carved out of parts of Syria and parts of Iraq? Do you think ‘ **we** ’ would be ‘ **justified** ’ to target and destroy any clear IS military targets whether that target is on soil ‘we’ recognize as Syria or Iraq? I say ‘we’ are ‘justified’ because IS are bloodthirsty terrorists hellbent on killing Shiites and destroying ancient Shiite religious shrines in Iraq and anywhere they can get access to them. That is genocide with no respect to borders or international law. It is not Iraq’s civil war II when you recognize that IS terrorist government forces are killing and looting for an extreme ideology that is not connected to the nation of Iraq or the nation of Syria. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/222 "2014-07-03T01:59:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just do a search. It’s all over the news. But I think they kill first, and then crucify. I don’t think they are using crucifixion as a form of execution. More desecration of the body. One of the nine crucified thus far was said to have survived the ordeal. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/223 "2014-07-03T02:29:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Convince us why we should take sides, what it’s going to mean to “win”, how we keep this confined to Iraq (and not include Syria), and how we go about attacking a nation that we just recognized as sovereign. Lay out the case for all of us to see. It is not expected to be confined to Iraq and not include Syria. Iraq has been attacked from Syria by terrorists that in their minds have erased the border between Syria and Iraq. And they intend to erase more. Winning is destroying every last IS terrorist from the lowest fighter to the highest leader. And liberating cities and towns that have been seized and occupied by IS terrorists. And helping to protect religious shrines and people in IS terrorists path. Good video if you wish to see what the start of defeating IS terrorists looks like. [http://m.media.watoday.com.au/national/selections/iraqi-forces-storm-tikrit-5564139.html](http://m.media.watoday.com.au/national/selections/iraqi-forces-storm-tikrit-5564139.html) I am not advocating ‘attacking a nation that we just recognized’ at all. I advocating what the President of the USA has advocated and that is assisting a nation in the fight against IS and that we recognize as sovereign nation when they ask for assistance and as long as they show they will do the hard fighting themselves on the ground. (See video) There is the case for you all to see . And dont forget $500 million for the vetted rebels in Syria now that the CW have been 100% removed from Syria - Safely! I might add - for the OPCW teams that oversaw the withdrawal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/224 "2014-07-03T02:40:37Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I am not advocating ‘attacking a nation that we just recognized’ at all. > [@NFBW](#): > > The terrorists have handed the civilized nations of the world a perfect opportunity to declare war on the Islamic State or IS. They want to be recognized as a nation state, so lets recognize it and then declare war on it for its crimes against humanity. > > We should start by raining cruise missiles on their parade. > [@](#): > > I advocating what the President of the USA has advocated You can’t hide from your own posts, dude. You are NOT advocating what Obama is advocating. You are advocating recognizing them as a state and then declaring war on them. Unless, you can quote Obama saying what you said, which of course you can’t. Cue the next tap dance… ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/225 "2014-07-03T03:08:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Of course not. What’s the point of that idiotic question? Though a few second hand Russian jets aren’t exactly the most fearsome of threats. But they will obviously change their demeanor with an air force on their case. Why is that an idiotic question? I had no way of knowing your answer would be ‘of course not’? Which is good because there are arguments here that air cover is not that critical in defeating IS terrorists that invaded Iraq en masse around June 10. If a few Russian attack fighters help ISF and volunteers turn back IS terrorists it is encouraging as we can see the early steps of Iraq being defended by Iraqis and Civil War II being less and less of a concern with every dead terrorist they kill. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Civilians have fled. You know perfectly well that local militias have cooperated with them. So when you say you doubt it, you are quite obviously being dishonest. No dishonesty here. You referred to this statement by me: “I don’t think most Sunnis welcomed the terrorist invaders in, but some may have made that despicable choice. That’s why over a million have fled the terrorist siezure of their towns and homes. They are in safer areas.” Did you miss that I honestly wrote “but some may have made that despicable choice” to welcome the terrorists in. I honestly do not know that the terrorists were ‘welcomed in’ because the brutality and lethality of this inhuman lot may have been more intimidation than blessing their onslaught. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/226 "2014-07-03T03:52:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You can’t hide from your own posts, dude. You are NOT advocating what Obama is advocating. You are advocating recognizing them as a state and then declaring war on them. Unless, you can quote Obama saying what you said, which of course you can’t. > > Cue the next tap dance… I am not hiding from my posts. I cited two things that Obama is doing or wants to do that is assisting the government of Iraq and the rebels in Syria to defeat the IS terrorists that are operating an unrecognized state that is partly in Iraq and partly in Syria. I wrote, The terrorists have handed the civilized nations of the world a perfect opportunity to declare war on the Islamic State or IS. They want to be recognized as a nation state, so lets recognize it and then declare war on it for its crimes against humanity. We should start by raining cruise missiles on their parade. You don’t get the point. That is fine. This is bigger than Obama. You know how terrorists are tough for civilized nations to fight with conventional war because they are not recognizable as nation states. So grant these bastards their wish and recognize the borders they claim today and the first move outside those borders wouldi mean the civilized nations of the world could do a good old fashioned declaration of war on the Islamic (terrorist) State and drive it to surrender. Then un-recognize the bastard state and return its halves to Syria and Iraq. Food for thought. Why not? I would envision the same as Libya no western ground troops - just air support over the Islamic Terrorist State to limit their movements in open territory. NATO and Arab League enforcing a UN Resolution in rare agreement to the elimination of a common threat. These bastards even have AlQaeda loathing them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/227 "2014-07-03T04:07:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you want to lay out the case for the US to get involved in Iraq Civil War II, knock yourself out. Convince us why we should take sides, what it’s going to mean to “win”, how we keep this confined to Iraq (and not include Syria), and how we go about attacking a nation that we just recognized as sovereign. Lay out the case for all of us to see. I have laid out the case and you missed it U guess. Look at what you asked: “If you want to lay out the case for the US to get involved in Iraq Civil War II, knock yourself out” Here is the case for the US to get involved in the defeat of the Islamic (terrorist)!State that you missed so far: It is not expected to be confined to Iraq and not include Syria. Iraq has been attacked from Syria by terrorists that in their minds have erased the border between Syria and Iraq. And they intend to erase more. Winning is destroying every last IS terrorist from the lowest fighter to the highest leader. And liberating cities and towns that have been seized and occupied by IS terrorists. And helping to protect religious shrines and people in IS terrorists path. Good video if you wish to see what the start of defeating IS terrorists looks like. [http://m.media.watoday.com.au/nation...t-5564139.html](http://m.media.watoday.com.au/nation...t-5564139.html) That’s not all but perhaps you can argue what is wrong with any of that? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/228 "2014-07-03T04:56:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not to mention that is clearly the most facile argument anyone has promoted on this MB regarding this issue. No regard for collateral damage. That is an error. I have addressed collateral damage often on many of the Iraq threads. Three basic points were a No Fly Zone on the Syria/Iraq Border targeting IS fighters in the open and also where they mass for attack. I’ve pointed out that Tikrit is reported to be a ghost town with many fleeing in advance of the ISF counter-attack. If you want to debate the collateral damage caused by IS terrorists vs ISF as legitimate defenders of Iraq lets hear your case. I already started mine; > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I have not seen one bit of regard for collateral damages by the ‘invading’ terrorists. Let me remind you that it is the terrorists direct objective to kill Shiites whether they be civilians or military. And you chose to take us back to 2003: > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It feels like Jan - Mar of 2003 all over again. Is it fair to remind you that in 2003 you said going to war in Iraq was justified while I say it was not. Can you defend all the collateral damage we inflicted in Iraq as justified when there was no violence or threat or violence to actually justify it? I believe I can justify US military support of Iraqis defending their country from a major serious terrorist threat while acknowledging that collateral damage will unfortunately occur. I have begun that as well; > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > There was no ‘justification’ for applying the collateral damage that the US and UK applied to Iraq in 2003. None. > > In defending themselves now the government of Iraq will cause collateral damage as well, but I see it as justified in facing the threat being thrown at them at this moment in history. > > Collateral damage is a tragic part of war but it will happen. That is why no one should start a war when there is no threat and no one should say it is justified when there is no chance in hell that it ever was. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It feels like Jan - Mar of 2003 all over again. The difference between now and then are stark. Could you explain why you wrote that ad a matter for today’s debate? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/229 "2014-07-03T05:02:35Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Why is that an idiotic question? I had no way of knowing your answer would be ‘of course’. Yes you did. Any rational thinking person would realize that the possibility of an air attack would alter their behavior. Which makes your question idiotic. .So do you think I’m irrational or are you yourself irrational not to know this is obvious? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/230 "2014-07-03T10:46:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yes you did. Any rational thinking person would realize that the possibility of an air attack would alter their behavior. Which makes your question idiotic. .So do you think I’m irrational or are you yourself irrational not to know this is obvious? Ah but you assume that all thinking on this board is ‘rational’. It is necessary to establish a baseline at times. But Syria still has an fighter air craft in the skies and they have recently struck IS targets in Iraq. So is there an explanation for this ‘irrational’ condition that IS has a parade in a Syrian City driving down an open street with a freakin’ SCUD on a truck in the hands of these murderers and thieves. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/231 "2014-07-03T12:33:34Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Ah but you assume that all thinking on this board is ‘rational’. Trust me, I do not assume that. You remind me not to almost every post. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/232 "2014-07-03T13:06:52Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I wrote, The terrorists have handed the civilized nations of the world a perfect opportunity to declare war on the Islamic State or IS. They want to be recognized as a nation state, so lets recognize it and then declare war on it for its crimes against humanity. We should start by raining cruise missiles on their parade. Does anyone else here see that as compatible with “I am not advocating ‘attacking a nation that we just recognized’ at all.”? > [@](#): > > So grant these bastards their wish and recognize the borders they claim today and the first move outside those borders wouldi mean the civilized nations of the world could do a good old fashioned declaration of war on the Islamic (terrorist) State and drive it to surrender. Your new tactic is even nuttier than the first. What if they don’t take any steps outside those borders? You are going to get the UNSC to recognize them (never happen) and then declare war on them (never happen) only if they move outside their borders (what about the millions of non-ISIL folks living within those borders). > [@](#): > > Then un-recognize the bastard state and return its halves to Syria and Iraq. Why would we need to unrecognized them if winning is defined as killing all of them (as you suggested in another post)? > [@](#): > > Food for thought. Why not? It’s the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Why do you think no one else on earth is advocating it? > [@](#): > > I would envision the same as Libya no western ground troops - just air support over the Islamic Terrorist State to limit their movements in open territory. NATO and Arab League enforcing a UN Resolution in rare agreement to the elimination of a common threat. . Are you aware what a disaster Libya is today? That is not a situation that recommends itself for a repeat. [This is just a taste of what’s going on in Libya.](http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21603508-stage-set-lengthy-struggle-power-drawing-battle-lines) BTW, let me know if you’d like to play a game of chess sometime. I can see you putting your queen directly in line with my bishop thinking you’ll take the bishop on the next move. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/233 "2014-07-03T23:53:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you aware what a disaster Libya is today? [Yes,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723683) but I doubt many Libyans really want Gaddafi back. And of course it was not to be expected that democracy could function right out of the gate in a country which not only had zero experience with it ever, but where any political discussion at all outside official settings was completely banned and suppressed for more than 40 years. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/234 "2014-07-04T02:24:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Yes,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723683) but I doubt many Libyans really want Gaddafi back. And of course it was not to be expected that democracy could function right out of the gate in a country which not only had zero experience with it ever, but where any political discussion at all outside official settings was completely banned and suppressed for more than 40 years. Nonsense. We’re talking about ridding an area of Islamicists. Are there more or less of them in Libya today than there were 3 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/235 "2014-07-04T03:05:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you aware what a disaster Libya is today? That is not a situation that recommends itself for a repeat. [This is just a taste of what’s going on in Libya.](http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21603508-stage-set-lengthy-struggle-power-drawing-battle-lines) Was the last time you checked on Libya in January? It is July now; Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release June 26, 2014. Statement by the President on the Elections in Libya [http://m.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/26/statement-president-elections-libya](http://m.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/26/statement-president-elections-libya) > [@](#): > > congratulate the Libyan people on the conclusion of the elections for a new Council of Representatives, a milestone in their courageous efforts to transition from four decades of dictatorship toward a full democracy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/236 "2014-07-04T03:16:18Z")
Obama paints a pretty picture of his policy? News at 11. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/237 "2014-07-04T11:07:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama paints a pretty picture of his policy? News at 11. And you have painted ‘a touch’ of the ugliest picture you can find as an apparent objection to the US military engagement on behalf of the people of Libya in 2011 to prevent Ghadafi from killing tens and tens of thousands of Libyans in order to sustain his dictatorship over the whole country. During the transition from dictatorship to democracy there are religious passions and forces that consistently seek to undermine the transition to establishing free and liberal democratic institutions in that part of the world. So now when religious extremists use violence and bloodshed to overpower the majority in Libya that reject dictatorship and theocracy, both that restrict freedom and deny rights, is it your view to reward the perpetrators of those religion driven acts of violence by throwing in the towel and saying there is nothing anyone can do? Transitions and revolutions over the course of history do get ugly. But in the case of Libya what was happening when much of the world intervened was much uglier. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/238 "2014-07-04T11:34:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama paints a pretty picture of his policy? News at 11. What do you consider to be Obama’s poiicies on Libya back in 2011? Where you agreeing or dissagreeing with the poster when you asked this: > [@The Libyan Revolution: Was it worth it?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-libyan-revolution-was-it-worth-it/688697/12): > > Would you have said the same thing about Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/239 "2014-07-04T12:14:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you want to lay out the case for the US to get involved in Iraq Civil War II, knock yourself out. Convince us why we should take sides, what it’s going to mean to “win”, how we keep this confined to Iraq (and not include Syria), and how we go about attacking a nation that we just recognized as sovereign. Lay out the case for all of us to see. Look at how you wrote the request that I was responding to. “If you want to lay out the case for the US to get involved in Iraq Civil War II, knock yourself out.”. So I laid it out per your request. "The case for the US to get involved in Iraq Civil War II. Here it is again; > [@](#): > > It is not expected to be confined to Iraq and not include Syria. Iraq has been attacked from Syria by terrorists that in their minds have erased the border between Syria and Iraq. And they intend to erase more. > > Winning is destroying every last IS terrorist from the lowest fighter to the highest leader. And liberating cities and towns that have been seized and occupied by IS terrorists. And helping to protect religious shrines and people in IS terrorists path. > > Good video if you wish to see what the start of defeating IS terrorists looks like. > > [http://m.media.watoday.com.au/nation...t-5564139.html](http://m.media.watoday.com.au/nation...t-5564139.html) > > I am not advocating ‘attacking a nation that we just recognized’ at all. I advocating what the President of the USA has advocated and that is assisting a nation in the fight against IS and that we recognize as sovereign nation when they ask for assistance and as long as they show they will do the hard fighting themselves on the ground. (See video) I was not advocating attacking Iraq in the case I was making about getting involved Iraq’s civil war. A diligent reader would have understood it that way. Now can you respond to the ‘case’ I made instead if playing ‘gothcha’ based upon your obvious misunderstanding of what I’ve written. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/240 "2014-07-04T14:14:38Z")
If you want to continue this discussion, you will have to decide whether you are advocating recognizing ISIL (or IS or whatever they call themselves) and then declaring war on them… or not. You have said you wanted to do so twice, and you have also claimed to have not said it. Choose one stance and explicitly tell us you are retracting the other stance. That you made an error in posting it, and are now recognizing that error. I am not interested in any further discussion since you have posted two completely contradictory stances, and I see no reason that you won’t do so again on the next issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473.md?page=13)