# ISIS in the Middle East is growing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473 "2014-06-10T14:45:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/101 "2014-06-19T14:01:58Z")
It is a period of civil war. Sunni mujahideen of ISIS, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the Shia government of Iraq. During the battle, ISIS spies managed to steal secret plans to Iraq’s ultimate weapon, the DERKA DERKA ALLAH, an IED with enough power to destroy half a city block. Pursued by Iraq’s US-backed agents, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi races home aboard his camel, custodian of the stolen plans that can save his people and restore Islamic death squads to the fertile crescent… ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/102 "2014-06-19T14:02:59Z")
I’ve noticed some news reports say “Isis”, rather than “ISIS”. I wonder why they name themselves after an ancient Egyptian goddess. It doesn’t seem very religious of them. Reporters must like to play this up, because they keep referring to “the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS)”. “Levant” doesn’t begin with “S”, you silly billies. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/103 "2014-06-19T14:10:21Z")
Well, I can’t imagine the Baathists would be happy with an ultra conservative religion based country. I have a feeling that “uneasy alliance” will explode much the same way the in-fighting erupted in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/104 "2014-06-19T14:13:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, I can’t imagine the Baathists would be happy with an ultra conservative religion based country. I have a feeling that “uneasy alliance” will explode much the same way the in-fighting erupted in Syria. Well, yeah. That’s all in the article. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/105 "2014-06-19T14:20:13Z")
[“The last “s” of “Isis” comes from the Arabic word “al-Sham”, meaning Levant, Syria or occasionally Damascus, depending on the circumstances.”](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/who-are-isis-the-rise-of-the-islamic-state-in-iraq-and-the-levant-9541421.html) There’s often a confusion when using a foreign language acronym. As for not capitalizing the entire acronym, I blame laziness and spellcheckers. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/106 "2014-06-19T14:26:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > ISIS, not Isis. Isis is an Egyptian god. That would still be awesome. But I’m merging this with another one of our endless ISIS and Iraq threads. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/107 "2014-06-19T14:26:54Z")
\*The following preview has been rated GD: **In a world where Islamists have streamed into Iraq, taking over Mosul, spreading their crazed version of Islam over a frightened populace…** Coming this summer to a theater near you: Iraq Civil War II; The Rise of ISIS.\* ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/108 "2014-06-19T14:32:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I would stick to political commentary, because that is an awful poem. The Rise of Isis in Iraq It’s strong regime will surely suck. Dominated by a sect; led by an Iron Man Antagonistic to Iran; to Israel and Japan. Forming a danger to the Western World at least And destabilising the whole of Middle East. Such a good result from deposing Hussain! To get back to where we started yet again. Invading Kuwait next? Developing WMDs? Thank you to Bush and the Neocon devotees. And all it cost was 5000 dead Americans. But the rest of them got really groovy tans. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/109 "2014-06-19T16:27:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, yeah. That’s all in the article. So back in 2011 when Obama opined that Iraq was stable relative to its past civil war, it is a fact that the Sunnis in the west and north were not in an alliance with any terrorists or al Qaeda types. In fact when Obama spoke to our troops in 2011 Iraq’s Sunnis had completey driven al Qaeda from their midst entirely as a result of the Anbar Awakening. But you have the audacity to suggest with the rapid return of al Qaeda to the Sunni dominated cities that Obama either lied or was clueless when he spoke. You are wrong unless it is quite proper to assume that a US President must also be a fortune teller knowing exactly what bad things will ever happen on every corner of the world. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/110 "2014-06-19T18:11:52Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > But you have the audacity to suggest with the rapid return of al Qaeda to the Sunni dominated cities that Obama either lied or was clueless when he spoke. You are wrong unless it is quite proper to assume that a US President must also be a fortune teller knowing exactly what bad things will ever happen on every corner of the world. Why don’t you put that comment in whatever thread he supposedly said it in, because I have no clue what you’re talking about nor what it has to do with the article he linked. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/111 "2014-06-19T18:56:07Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > So back in 2011 when Obama opined that Iraq was stable relative to its past civil war, Obama never said “relative to its past civil war”. That’s something you made up. > [@](#): > > it is a fact that the Sunnis in the west and north were not in an alliance with any terrorists or al Qaeda types. In fact when Obama spoke to our troops in 2011 Iraq’s Sunnis had completey driven al Qaeda from their midst entirely as a result of the Anbar Awakening. It’s not al Qaeda fighting today. That is something you are misinformed about. > [@](#): > > But you have the audacity to suggest with the rapid return of al Qaeda to the Sunni dominated cities that Obama either lied or was clueless when he spoke. You are wrong unless it is quite proper to assume that a US President must also be a fortune teller knowing exactly what bad things will ever happen on every corner of the world. I never posted that. That is something you made up. Let me know when you are prepared to discuss a) Things Obama actually said; b) Things I actually posted or c) Events that are actually happening in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/112 "2014-06-19T19:40:53Z")
Tweet! Let’s everyone calm down. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/113 "2014-06-20T00:24:33Z")
I wrote: “it is a fact that the Sunnis in the west and north were not in an alliance with any terrorists or al Qaeda types. In fact when Obama spoke to our troops in 2011 Iraq’s Sunnis had completey driven al Qaeda from their midst entirely as a result of the Anbar Awakening.” John Mace tells me that, “It’s not al Qaeda fighting today.” Anyone can see I wrote “al Qaeda types”. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/114 "2014-06-20T00:39:58Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why don’t you put that comment in whatever thread he supposedly said it in, because I have no clue what you’re talking about nor what it has to do with the article he linked. I brought it up because John Mace and you were discussing the ‘uneasy alliance’ between ISiS and Iraq’s Sunnis from the article he linked. That alliance is something that I agree probably won’t last, but it is an opportune time to point out to John Mace that Obama had no way to know in 2011 that this alliance would threaten the stability in Iraq that Obama recognized in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/115 "2014-06-20T01:19:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama never said “relative to its past civil war”. I was not citing a direct quote by Obama. I said he ‘opined’. See my statement here: (So back in 2011 when Obama **opined** that Iraq was stable relative to its past civil war) And I am certain that Obama was expressing an opinion based upon the stability that existed in Iraq at that time as he welcomed home some of the troops that helped achieve that stability. > [@](#): > > President Obama at Fort Bragg: “Welcome Home” December 14, 2011 at 02:55 PM EDT. “Iraq’s not a perfect place,” Mr. Obama allowed. “It has many challenges ahead - but we’re leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-relying Iraq.” [http://m.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/12/14/president-obama-fort-bragg-welcome-home](http://m.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/12/14/president-obama-fort-bragg-welcome-home) I’d like to ask John Mace if he recalls the two choices he gave with regard to President Obama’s remarks in 2011 about Iraq’s stability. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/116 "2014-06-20T01:35:43Z")
I gave 3 choices, although I suppose the 3rd choice would still technically be a lie. But it would be a political lie, which politicians sometimes have to do. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/117 "2014-06-20T01:57:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I gave 3 choices, although I suppose the 3rd choice would still technically be a lie. But it would be a political lie, which politicians sometimes have to do. There are only two: > [@Why the US left Iraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-us-left-iraq/690750/36): > > Missed the edit window: > > I think **puddlegum’s** summary is a good one. There were folks in the administration in favor of hard negotiations with the Iraqis to keep some troops there and folks against. Personally, I was against it. But Obama told us all that he was pulling everyone out and that he was leaving a stable and capable Iraqi Defense Force behind. So, he either lied to us or didn’t know what he was talking about. Now he’s getting criticized. Well, too bad. That comes with the territory. These are the only two choices you offered: (“But Obama told us all that he was pulling everyone out and that he was leaving a stable and capable Iraqi Defense Force behind. So, **he either lied to us or didn’t know what he was talking**.”)i ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/118 "2014-06-20T02:31:48Z")
That wasn’t the only post I made in that thread. And you probably should take **CarnalK’s** advice and keep that argument in the original thread. Less confusing for people. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/119 "2014-06-20T03:14:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But it would be a political lie, which politicians sometimes have to do. Hell, I believe they like to lie, be they good or evil. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/120 "2014-06-20T03:21:01Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Tweet! > > Let’s everyone calm down. Don’t tell us, tell the Iraqis! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473.md?page=7)