# ISIS in the Middle East is growing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473 "2014-06-10T14:45:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/161 "2014-06-22T18:50:49Z")
I tried to look up ISIS on Wikipedia but could find nothing associated with Iraq or any Muslim or MidEastern group. Anyone know of any links to somewhere that explains what is ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/162 "2014-06-22T18:54:50Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I tried to look up ISIS on Wikipedia but could find nothing associated with Iraq or any Muslim or MidEastern group. > > Anyone know of any links to somewhere that explains what is ISIS? [This is the wikipedia article.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_in_Iraq_and_the_Levant) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/163 "2014-06-22T18:55:06Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I tried to look up ISIS on Wikipedia but could find nothing associated with Iraq or any Muslim or MidEastern group. > > Anyone know of any links to somewhere that explains what is ISIS? For various reasons having to do with translation and such, they’re on Wikipedia under [Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_in_Iraq_and_the_Levant). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/164 "2014-06-22T18:57:06Z")
If you get to the wikipedia article on Isis (the Egyptian god), there is a link at the top for ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/165 "2014-06-22T19:46:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I hate to have to brake the news to you, but ISIL started in Iraq. What does that have to so with this: People are waking up to the reality that the so-called Sunni/Shiite Civil War II in Iraq is a regional war where the head of the ISIS snake needs to be cut off immediately and that snake is not in Iraq I do not believe. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has name a city in Syria as the ISIS caliphate’s capitol. That is not Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/166 "2014-06-22T20:57:09Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > A week later you are still right. And probably getting righter every day. That remains to be seen, but yeah, so far so good. The _New York Times_ reports [here](http://www.allunblocked.com/permalink.php?url=6anjyuIFYU3l9aO%2BLxCejr6uYIxI%2FT3n0YqpbRPzZl%2BedJ%2FceHpsYOmd39JxAd4Z2qZBDsfsZIh69beP7HZwvok%2B0ywD4MAgwyG2ArdvVFGl4IWFkgoo5O5kcXvmrCV2Lzg7aYcUbWIrSWtAPBtKb2Al8uJlXMVNE%2FwBB22SC%2FIRostPNldUwhk8lNd55HGcvQojfYnjIuOWK%2FP9uQCn7BZ1uuSDSZRoio%2Fg1pGYStN0o%2BFukOJ0cVPy4N7271Ws) that: > [@](#): > > ISIS fighters killed three brothers of one of the leaders of the Islamic Army and destroyed houses of fighters in that group as well as of the Men of Naqshbandia Just four or five days ago, ISIS and the Naqshbandia were acting all chummy, but now this? Perhaps a sign that the “Sunni coalition” is already beginning to come apart at the seams. [Meanwhile in Sadr City, a Shi’ite show of force](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10916926/Iraq-crisis-Baghdads-Shia-militia-in-defiant-50000-strong-rally-as-Isis-make-further-gains.html). But it’s not all on the up and up for the Shi’ites either. ISIS _did_ just take Qa’im, which, [as John Cole points out](http://www.juancole.com/2014/06/erases-border-hizbullah.html), means that “Iran no longer has its land bridge to Lebanon.” So there’s that, too. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/167 "2014-06-22T21:09:49Z")
I guess the US civil war was just a “regional conflict”. And killing one guy isn’t going to change the situation in Iraq one bit. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/168 "2014-06-23T11:18:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess the US civil war was just a “regional conflict”. And killing one guy isn’t going to change the situation in Iraq one bit. Changing the political situation in Iraq is a simultaneous effort with many other efforts needed to be done. Killing the head of ISIS is one of those other goals. Killing all ISIS commanders and fighters where they lurk is another. Who said only one effort can dispatched at one time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/169 "2014-06-23T14:57:45Z")
We can only respond to the goalpost you set in your posts, not the goalpost you come back afterwards and reset. Your solution of killing all ISIS members is pure genius. Why didn’t anyone else think of that!?!?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/170 "2014-06-23T16:26:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We can only respond to the goalpost you set in your posts, not the goalpost you come back afterwards and reset. > > Your solution of killing all ISIS members is pure genius. Why didn’t anyone else think of that!?!?!?!? You have no argument with me I see. I did not set a goalpost. You argued that ISIS is not the problem. Have you changed your mind after seeing that the Kurds have expressed the will to kill them everywhere in Iraq and Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/171 "2014-06-23T16:44:53Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You have no argument with me I see. I did not set a goalpost. You argued that ISIS is not the problem. Have you changed your mind after seeing that the Kurds have expressed the will to kill them everywhere in Iraq and Syria. 😕 When, exactly, did the Kurds “express the will” to kill off ISIS in _Syria_, too? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/172 "2014-06-23T21:53:08Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > People are waking up to the reality that the so-called Sunni/Shiite Civil War II in Iraq is a regional war where the head of the ISIS snake needs to be cut off immediately . . . Would that even work? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/173 "2014-06-23T23:41:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Would that even work? I find no negatives for civilized people to erase such scum from the face of the earth. Does it solve the problems that Maliki has in governing Iraq and with the military? No. All that is being worked on too. Bin Ladin was a great kill, but killing Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi at the peak of his career would stun his caliphate building terrorist following. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/174 "2014-06-24T00:18:56Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I find no negatives for civilized people to erase such scum from the face of the earth. > > Does it solve the problems that Maliki has in governing Iraq and with the military? No. All that is being worked on too. > > Bin Ladin was a great kill, but killing Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi at the peak of his career would stun his caliphate building terrorist following. He has been very careful to keep his identity secret (“Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi” is only a _nom de guerre)_ and never appears publicly without a mask. How could anyone find him or make sure they had got him? Or prevent a lieutenant from taking his place under the same name, like the Dread Pirate Roberts? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/175 "2014-06-24T01:00:53Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > 😕 > > When, exactly, did the Kurds “express the will” to kill off ISIS in _Syria_, too? They’ve been calling them to be ‘hit’ for years. I don’t think they meant bitch slapped. > [@](#): > > Mr. Bahjay says the onslaught came as no surprise and that Kurdish intelligence repeatedly warned its partners in Baghdad and the West. > > “We expected the situation to worsen but for it to happen at such speed came as a surprise,” he says. “We’ve been shouting for years: the situation is not good; ISIS needs to get hit [and] what is happening in Syria will ultimately affect the whole world.” > **[Facing ISIS threat, Kurdish fighters favor US air power](https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2014/0619/Facing-ISIS-threat-Kurdish-fighters-favor-US-air-power)** > > Kurds have carved out a semi-autonomous homeland in northern Iraq that's now threatened by Sunni militants. Kurdish officials say they can help US warplanes spot targets. Rooz Bahjay is a senior security official of the Kurdish Regional Government. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/176 "2014-06-24T01:45:36Z")
I’m going to set the same rules here I set in the other Iraq thread: those claiming another poster is misrepresenting their positions have immunity in the past but from this point forward I - and presumably other moderators if any wish to join the fun - will examine all such statements as time permits and hand out sanctions as appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/177 "2014-06-24T02:01:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He has been very careful to keep his identity secret (“Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi” is only a _nom de guerre)_ and never appears publicly without a mask. How could anyone find him or make sure they had got him? Or prevent a lieutenant from taking his place under the same name, like the Dread Pirate Roberts? Extremely difficult but that’s what we pay our intelligence agencies to do. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/178 "2014-06-24T05:13:06Z")
From your own link. > [@](#): > > “We are prepared to fight for every inch of that land that we feel is Kurdish,” says Ranj Talabany, a senior intelligence officer with the Kurdish “peshmerga” paramilitary forces. > > Image Sunni and Shiite Islam: Do you know the difference? Take our quiz. > > A sweeping offensive by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) has shaken Iraq to the core. Kurdish officials say they saw it coming and tried to warn Western intelligence agencies about the jihadi threat emerging from Syria’s civil war, where ISIS and other Sunni militant groups found fertile ground to expand. > > Now they want to see the US military launch air strikes on ISIS forces – and are prepared to provide intelligence on targets. So - explicitly NOT offering to fight ISIS. They are saying they’ll fight for lands THEY (and not anyone else) feel they are entitled to. And yea - hey - it would be great if the USA dropped bombs where they pointed. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/179 "2014-06-24T09:33:29Z")
There’s a world of difference between “ISIS needs to get hit” and “we’ll send our troops into Syria and root 'em out.” ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473/180 "2014-06-24T14:49:49Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > There’s a world of difference between “ISIS needs to get hit” and “we’ll send our troops into Syria and root 'em out.” Quite. I’m sure they’ll be quite busy establishing and then holding onto the ‘facts on the ground’ Kurdistan they’re busy going for in all the chaos. But there is a large Kurdish ethnic minority in Syria so I expect their land is on some map of Kurdistan and the Kurds would appreciate US help in getting hold of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-in-the-middle-east-is-growing/690473.md?page=10)