# ISIS needs to be destroyed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2015, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801 "2015-02-16T09:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/161 "2015-03-05T22:48:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Update: [28,000 refugees have fled Tikrit; ISIS has torched the oil wells outside the city.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31753727) I think the clearest evidence that Islam has gone permanently off the rails is the way they treat _each OTHER_. Iraqi Sunni and Shia are the same race, ethnicity, culture, and religion (just not sect). It would be as if the Catholics in the U.S. just started killing Protestants in the streets, just because they hate them. Hell, even THAT’S not a sufficient analogy. It’s even more ridiculous than that, because at least Catholics and Protestants are generally of different ethnicity in the US. Jesus Christ, fuck religion. Fuck atheists too, they give religion strength by opposing its beliefs instead of its effects. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/162 "2015-03-06T00:34:33Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I think the clearest evidence that Islam has gone permanently off the rails is the way they treat _each OTHER_. Iraqi Sunni and Shia are the same race, ethnicity, culture, and religion (just not sect). It would be as if the Catholics in the U.S. just started killing Protestants in the streets, just because they hate them. Hell, even THAT’S not a sufficient analogy. It’s even more ridiculous than that, because at least Catholics and Protestants are generally of different ethnicity in the US. It would be like Catholic and Orthodox Christians slaughtering each other in the Balkans? Or like overwhelmingly Christian Rwanda where Hutus slaughtered Tutsi and other Hutu? The surface level fault line is along the sect of Islam but there’s some depth below the surface. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/163 "2015-03-06T01:04:02Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > It would be like Catholic and Orthodox Christians slaughtering each other in the Balkans? Or like overwhelmingly Christian Rwanda where Hutus slaughtered Tutsi and other Hutu? The surface level fault line is along the sect of Islam but there’s some depth below the surface. The Hutus and Tutsis didn’t create the problem. As far as slaughter in the Balkans goes, there’s a bigger cultural divide there, historically, I think, than between Sunni and Shia of the same culture. I could be wrong, I’ve not studied the Orthodox/Catholic conflicts in the modern era at all. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/164 "2015-03-06T05:13:27Z")
Northern Ireland had some sectarian intra-Christian unpleasantness in the not overly distant past. > [@XT](#): > > Huh? Why would me stating that ISIS/ISIL needs to be destroyed equate to me flying out to Syria today?? I don’t need to be directly involved in the destroying to state that they need to be destroyed. Well given how gung-ho you were, I thought you were going to hang up your keyboard and take the battle directly to the enemy. The point being that pit-talk is cheap and American lives and treasure expensive. > [@](#): > > Have you considered the unintended consequences of us doing nothing, or not doing enough? It kind of works both ways. Yeah I have. ISIS isn’t an existential threat to the US and they aren’t as yet creating an humanitarian catastrophe. They just post diverting videos on You-tube. > [@](#): > > I donate to [these](http://www.usa.gov/) guys (every pay check in fact) instead…I think they will have a more profound impact and be far more help against ISIS. YMMV of course. _::waves flag::_ To be honest though, it wouldn’t surprise me if we had little substantive disagreement. The Iranians frankly have more of an interest in this than the US and they are indeed putting lives and resources on the line in Tikrit. Human rights violations wouldn’t surprise me given the sorts of fellows they’ve sent in. I argued for US military involvement upthread. I just want it to be well measured. _ **Nobody out-types MfM!** _ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/165 "2015-03-06T05:35:47Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Jesus Christ, fuck religion. Fuck atheists too, they give religion strength by opposing its beliefs instead of its effects. We can’t oppose its effects, we have \*\*ambitions! No one\*\* expects the Unitarian Inquisition! We have **ways** of making you think for yourself! And they all **hurt!** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/166 "2015-03-06T08:52:05Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > The Hutus and Tutsis didn’t create the problem. What does this supposition have to do with anything? > [@](#): > > As far as slaughter in the Balkans goes, there’s a bigger cultural divide there, historically, I think, than between Sunni and Shia of the same culture. How would you judge this? The Croat and the Serb speak effectively the same language, they have the same cuisines, etc. etc. This is a meaningless excuse making - not that I can see anything that says you have any real idea of the Sunni and the Shia as either religion or as the ethnic markers in the Mesopotamia area or the histories there (both cooperation and not). > [@](#): > > I could be wrong, I’ve not studied the Orthodox/Catholic conflicts in the modern era at all. You are. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/167 "2015-03-06T17:37:37Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The Iranians frankly have more of an interest in this than the US and they are indeed putting lives and resources on the line in Tikrit. [Indeed they are](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/world/middleeast/us-strategy-in-iraq-increasingly-relies-on-iran.html): > [@](#): > > Landon Shroder, an intelligence analyst for corporations in Iraq [stated] that the worry that Iran will gain influence in Iraq ignores the reality that Iran’s Shiite government is already a key Iraqi ally. > > “By this stage, everybody who observed what happened in Iraq with the Islamic State should know that the main influencer in Iraq is Iran,” he said in a telephone interview on Wednesday. “That’s an unpopular perception in the United States, after spending so much money and lives lost in the conflict, but it’s reality.” > > Mr. Shroder said that at the moment, the only force with the ability to bring Kurdish troops, the Iraqi Army and the Shiite militias together to fight the Islamic State is Iran. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/168 "2015-03-06T17:46:57Z")
[ISIS bulldozes ancient Assyrian ruins.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/05/islamic-state-isis-extremists-bulldoze-ancient-nimrud-site-mosul-iraq) ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/169 "2015-03-06T20:46:26Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > What does this supposition have to do with anything? > > How would you judge this? The Croat and the Serb speak effectively the same language, they have the same cuisines, etc. etc. > > This is a meaningless excuse making - not that I can see anything that says you have any real idea of the Sunni and the Shia as either religion or as the ethnic markers in the Mesopotamia area or the histories there (both cooperation and not). > > You are. Actually, I originally said “country”, not “faith”, but keep ignoring my actual words in favor of jerking your jerky kneejerk leg in my direction. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/170 "2015-03-06T21:19:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [ISIS bulldozes ancient Assyrian ruins.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/05/islamic-state-isis-extremists-bulldoze-ancient-nimrud-site-mosul-iraq) This deserves more attention. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/171 "2015-03-06T22:20:13Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I think, than between Sunni and Shia of the same culture. I could be wrong, I’ve not studied the Orthodox/Catholic conflicts in the modern era at all. There’s not really. The most glaring difference is in alphabet - Latin based versus cyrillic. Most of the differences stem more from which larger power controlled what were separate small but still Slavic kingdoms for centuries. The Bosnian Muslims, that were also right there in the heart of that three way ethnic cleanse fest, are historically linked to the Ottoman Empire control of the region. Some Slavs converted at that time forming the new “ethnic” group. A lot of the [Shia-Sunni](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/18/the-sunni-shia-divide-where-they-live-what-they-believe-and-how-they-view-each-other/) split in Iraq breaks along the Persian-Arab lines of conflict. In some Muslim countries away from the region’s ethnic conflict, significant chunks of the population can self identify as non-sectarian Muslims. That historical Persian-Arab conflict in the Middle East plays out large. The split of the sects came about along that fault line. It plays out today in Iraq. It’s played out as well in Syria (Sunni rebellion against minority ruling Alawites (Shia offshoot) that’s backed by Iran.) Bosniaks, to go back to the start of this little trip - [majority non-Sectarian](http://www.pewforum.org/2012/08/09/the-worlds-muslims-unity-and-diversity-1-religious-affiliation/) (also quite secular IME). Post civil war and genocide all sides tended to become less secular as s result of trauma and build churches/mosques as a political statement. That saw a small move in the linked numbers from non-sectarian to Sunni. Guess where most of the outside funding for those mosques was coming from? Hint it wasn’t Iran. 😉 There’s more at play than the surface level Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/172 "2015-03-06T23:56:20Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Actually, I originally said “country”, not “faith”, but keep ignoring my actual words in favor of jerking your jerky kneejerk leg in my direction. That actually changes nothing and only emphasizes more that you are an ignorant who is making statements out purely superficial bigotries. there is not knee jerking in responding to show you made stupid, ignorant statements that are factually wrong, to try to justify certain opinions - it is only to be not an ignorant and not a bigot. DinoR has added to this ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/173 "2015-03-07T00:43:21Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > That actually changes nothing and only emphasizes more that you are an ignorant who is making statements out purely superficial bigotries. > > there is not knee jerking in responding to show you made stupid, ignorant statements that are factually wrong, to try to justify certain opinions - it is only to be not an ignorant and not a bigot. > > DinoR has added to this “Ignorant” isn’t a noun. Try proofreading. Also, careful with that knee. Overuse can result in the need for reconstructive surgery. LOL ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/174 "2015-03-07T01:25:39Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > This deserves more attention. Is it any surprise? Remember what the Taliban did to those giant statues of Buddha? ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/175 "2015-03-07T01:59:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is it any surprise? Remember what the Taliban did to those giant statues of Buddha? Surprising? No. Disheartening? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/176 "2015-03-07T03:44:55Z")
We are destroying ancient archaeological sites right here in America, today, namely the [Mounds of Cahokia.](http://www.ausbcomp.com/RedMan/st_louis_mounds.htm) The Big Mound got bulldozed; I think there is a parking lot there now. Daesh is certainly horrible, but they are a foreign problem. I don’t like the way they distract from very serious problems in our own country. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/177 "2015-03-07T04:15:30Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Daesh is certainly horrible, but they are a foreign problem. I don’t like the way they distract from very serious problems in our own country. The destruction of significant archaeological sites goes beyond regional politics because it impacts everyone. So it’s not really a “foreign problem”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/178 "2015-03-07T05:22:24Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > We are destroying ancient archaeological sites right here in America, today, namely the [Mounds of Cahokia.](http://www.ausbcomp.com/RedMan/st_louis_mounds.htm) The Big Mound got bulldozed; I think there is a parking lot there now. [No, it’s still there.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/179 "2015-03-07T10:46:50Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > “Ignorant” isn’t a noun. Try proofreading. Also, careful with that knee. Overuse can result in the need for reconstructive surgery. LOL OK, so let us fight **Ramira** ’s ignorance. What she should have called you is an ignoramus, imbecile, idiot or moron. Would that work better for your sudden attack of “English words cannot change grammatical use”? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801/180 "2015-03-07T11:49:27Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > We are destroying ancient archaeological sites right here in America You fellas destroyed quite a few such sites [in Iraq as well](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jun/08/comment.iraq): > [@](#): > > … A report two years ago by John Curtis, of the British Museum, on America’s conversion of Nebuchadnezzar’s great city of Babylon into the hanging gardens of Halliburton. This meant a 150-hectare camp for 2,000 troops. In the process the 2,500-year-old brick pavement to the Ishtar Gate was smashed by tanks and the gate itself damaged. The archaeology-rich subsoil was bulldozed to fill sandbags, and large areas covered in compacted gravel for helipads and car parks. Babylon is being rendered archaeologically barren. > > Meanwhile the courtyard of the 10th-century caravanserai of Khan al-Raba was used by the Americans for exploding captured insurgent weapons. One blast demolished the ancient roofs and felled many of the walls. The place is now a ruin. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-needs-to-be-destroyed/712801.md?page=10)