# ISIS--you're going down **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073 "2014-08-08T01:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/61 "2014-08-08T15:02:12Z")
From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/08/world/iraq-options/index.html): > [@](#): > > Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina want to see U.S. forces take the fight to the Islamic State. > > “It should include U.S. airstrikes against ISIS leaders, forces, and positions both in Iraq and Syria,” their statement read. This isn’t a rhetorical question, I really can’t tell the players without a scorecard. But aren’t these guys some of the same Syrian rebels that McCain wanted us to arm just last fall? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/62 "2014-08-08T15:05:10Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/08/world/iraq-options/index.html):This isn’t a rhetorical question, I really can’t tell the players without a scorecard. But aren’t these guys some of the same Syrian rebels that McCain wanted us to arm just last fall? No. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/63 "2014-08-08T15:08:53Z")
> [@CNN](#): > > Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina want to see U.S. forces take the fight to the Islamic State. Of course they do. It’s McCain’s only solution to any problem. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/64 "2014-08-08T15:15:47Z")
> [@Mellivora\_capensis](#): > > Kovac, Pratt and Carter. You’re sending in the _solicitors_? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/65 "2014-08-08T15:39:58Z")
That’s not a bad idea, actually. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/66 "2014-08-08T16:05:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > My biggest concern is with identifying useful (and correct) targets, something very hard to do without people actually on the ground. The chance of random killing of innocents seems pretty high compared to any potential military effectiveness, even in the short term. > > I hope, and assume, we’re supporting and arming the Kurds to help them defend themselves - at least there’s some of that much-desired “moral clarity” there. In the rest of Iraq and Syria, well, how do you tell who the “good guys” are, or even if there is such a thing? Maybe this is a fire that needs to burn itself out. The western sense of right and wrong makes it very difficult for us to stand around on the sidelines and wring our hands impotently. “Something must be done!” is the way we react to every problem. Even when it’s not necessarily our problem/fight. Certainly not a fight we can hope to win without also causing great harm to those we try to help. And the good guys become bad guys so quickly that it’s impossible to know if those you’re trying to protect are committed to living peacefully or just waiting for an opportunity to exact their revenge. Which is how things seem to go more often than not. Centuries of grudges are held and avenged when opportunities allow for it. All we can hope to do is try to smother a local fire. Perhaps the right thing to do is to let it burn. But who wants to live with that decision? Evidently the EU and UK, that’s who. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/67 "2014-08-08T16:06:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …are we just keeping them alive to die another day? That’s pretty much how it goes for anybody, you live and then you die. Does that mean we should all stop taking medication? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/68 "2014-08-08T16:06:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s not a bad idea, actually. Bill them to death? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/69 "2014-08-08T16:16:02Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Most people who are opposed to the indiscriminate slaughter in Gaza are pretty much opposed to indiscriminate slaughter by anyone, anywhere. That’s certainly how I roll. Except the “indiscriminate slaughter in Gaza” exists only on your head. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/70 "2014-08-08T16:20:18Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That’s pretty much how it goes for anybody, you live and then you die. Does that mean we should all stop taking medication? Is there a sale on bad analogies today? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/71 "2014-08-08T16:35:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Humanitarian bombing missions do have an effectiveness problem, don’t they? Yes, they can. My understanding (at this point) is the current airstrikes are at things like armored columns or gun emplacements, things that are clearly weapons/military. If that is the case then airstrikes can be effective. > [@Clothahump](#): > > What the raghead militants apparently don’t realize is that they are going to fire one too many missiles at Israel and Israel is going to kill everyone in the Gaza area in order to eliminate the threat. Congratulations on the ethnic slur/call to genocide combo. > [@](#): > > It will be tragic, but necessary, and they will be justified in doing it because the people there are complicit and aiding Hamas in what they are doing. If the people weren’t complicit, they would be stopping Hamas. Just keep ignoring that there are true innocents caught in the cross fire there - it shows your true colors. Also, as others have pointed out, Hamas and ISIS are two completely different groups. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Pin prick. We won’t be changing anything on the ground. I applaud the humanitarian mission, but are we just keeping them alive to die another day? There’s talk of “humanitarian corridors” to allow the Yazidis to escape to a safer location, probably either in Turkey or where there are Yazidi communities elsewhere in the world. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/72 "2014-08-08T16:37:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Except the “indiscriminate slaughter in Gaza” exists only on your head. _Discriminate_ slaughter, then? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/73 "2014-08-08T16:40:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There’s talk of “humanitarian corridors” to allow the Yazidis to escape to a safer location, probably either in Turkey or where there are Yazidi communities elsewhere in the world. Well, I hope that works out. They’ll still be refugees, of course, but I guess that’s better than dying. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/74 "2014-08-08T16:47:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, they can. My understanding (at this point) is the current airstrikes are at things like armored columns or gun emplacements, things that are clearly weapons/military. If that is the case then airstrikes can be effective. Initially, yes, they will be very effective and hurt ISIS. But ISIS will quickly change strategies and learn to hide in the general population. It’s a tactic they know very well. It will certainly impact their ability to advance and take new territory as easily as before, but they will turn to other, more discrete means. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/75 "2014-08-08T16:48:27Z")
> [@andros](#): > > _Discriminate_ slaughter, then? Number of Israeli strikes on Gaza from July 8th to August 5th: 4,762 Number of Palestinian dead: 1,900 (at least half of them militants) I would say that’s pretty “discriminate”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/76 "2014-08-08T16:51:57Z")
> [@andros](#): > > _Discriminate_ slaughter, then? > [@Terr](#): > > Number of Israeli strikes on Gaza from July 8th to August 5th: 4,762 > Number of Palestinian dead: 1,900 (at least half of them militants) > > I would say that’s pretty “discriminate”. Can you guys take your arguments about Israel to… a thread that’s about Israel? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/77 "2014-08-08T16:53:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Number of Israeli strikes on Gaza from July 8th to August 5th: 4,762 > Number of Palestinian dead: 1,900 (at least half of them militants) > > I would say that’s pretty “discriminate”. So on average, an Israeli strike kills as many Hamas militants as non-combatants. And those numbers look pretty good to you? Fuuuckkkkk… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/78 "2014-08-08T16:53:52Z")
The Yazidi are refugees wherever they go, they have no safe territory. They are the one topic that both Shia and Sunni are in complete agreement. They have no territory, no army, no money, and no oil. They are geopolitically boned. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/79 "2014-08-08T17:03:14Z")
CNN is reporting that ISIS has put us on notice that they plan, Allah willing, to raise their flag over the Whitehouse. Somehow I think even Allah is laughing his ass off over that comment. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/80 "2014-08-08T17:04:41Z")
Admit it, everyone, who here had ever \*heard \*of the Yazidis before a couple of days ago? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073.md?page=5)