# ISIS--you're going down **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073 "2014-08-08T01:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/81 "2014-08-08T17:10:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So on average, an Israeli strike kills as many Hamas militants as non-combatants. > > And those numbers look pretty good to you? Yes. That’s as good a ratio as any military can hope to achieve under the circumstances. Better, in fact, than the US ratio in Kosovo war, with the best weapons in the world and the stated commitment to zero civilian casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/82 "2014-08-08T17:11:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Admit it, everyone, who here had ever \*heard \*of the Yazidis before a couple of days ago? I have. I have been interested in Kurds for years. Yazidi is one of the religions they practice. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/83 "2014-08-08T17:21:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There’s talk of “humanitarian corridors” to allow the Yazidis to escape to a safer location, probably either in Turkey or where there are Yazidi communities elsewhere in the world. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, I hope that works out. They’ll still be refugees, of course, but I guess that’s better than dying. Yes, it’s not like various groups have never relocated. There are, apparently, substantial Yazidi communities in Germany, Russia, Armenia, and Georgia. (Also Iraq and Syria according to on-line sources but, of course, that may have changed in the recent past). It would mighty damn fine if those nations were willing to accept a few more. It wouldn’t surprise me if we wind up with more Yazidis in the US, just like we took in some of the Sudanese Lost Boys, the Hmong, and others. Leaving Iraq would mean leaving some important Yazidi tombs and shrines behind and that could be quite jarring especially since you know the likes of ISIS will destroy those monuments as soon as they can. Ultimately, it’s up to the Yazidi to choose among whatever options are presented to them. > [@elucidator](#): > > The Yazidi are refugees wherever they go, they have no safe territory. They are the one topic that both Shia and Sunni are in complete agreement. They have no territory, no army, no money, and no oil. They are geopolitically boned. And that’s why ISIS thought they could simply wipe them out. I wonder if they’re surprised anyone has noticed? Yazidis have, apparently, been trickling out of the Middle East for the past century. They have a small diaspora in countries far safer for them at this point than Iraq or Syria. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > CNN is reporting that ISIS has put us on notice that they plan, Allah willing, to raise their flag over the Whitehouse. Somehow I think even Allah is laughing his ass off over that comment. Ha-ha-ha… good luck with that, guys. The US tends to go apeshit if anyone touches their soil. Unless they get a nuke or something like that… but that’s not terribly likely at this point. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Admit it, everyone, who here had ever \*heard \*of the Yazidis before a couple of days ago? Nope, they’re new to me - not surprising for a small group that largely keep to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/84 "2014-08-08T17:27:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Admit it, everyone, who here had ever \*heard \*of the Yazidis before a couple of days ago? I had, but I’m a nerd. [They have this ancient religion, with Zoroastrian and pre-Zoroastrian elements](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi#Religious_beliefs), that nobody else in the world has. Therefore, all their neighbors hate them. Muslims don’t even consider them a “People of the Book” like Jews and Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/85 "2014-08-08T17:33:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Admit it, everyone, who here had ever \*heard \*of the Yazidis before a couple of days ago? There was an Alan Moore-created superhero, King Peacock, who was a Yazidi. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/86 "2014-08-08T17:36:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wow, you’re an optimist. As was pointed out already, except for full-blown boots-on-the-ground invasion by the US (yeah, right), only two things can be done. One is air attacks, which will do exactly nothing strategic. The other is arming the hell out of Kurds and encouraging their independence, which will basically create a well-armed and well-defended Kurdistan and leave the rest of Iraq and “Levant” to ISIS. Air strikes do have strategic implications when ISIS is actually moving in formation against Erbil, it will stop them from taking Erbil. ISIS has actually grown to the point they aren’t just guys hiding in holes or houses, bombing their formations puts them back to that, and I don’t see a scenario in which ISIS wins a guerrilla war against armed Kurds–the Kurds will never stop fighting, and will fight a war for a hundred years if they have to, and since ISIS is made up not of locals but primarily extremists that most locals hate I doubt ISIS has that kind of staying power. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/87 "2014-08-08T17:40:49Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Air strikes do have strategic implications when ISIS is actually moving in formation against Erbil, it will stop them from taking Erbil. ISIS has actually grown to the point they aren’t just guys hiding in holes or houses, bombing their formations puts them back to that, and I don’t see a scenario in which ISIS wins a guerrilla war against armed Kurds–the Kurds will never stop fighting, and will fight a war for a hundred years if they have to, and since ISIS is made up not of locals but primarily extremists that most locals hate I doubt ISIS has that kind of staying power. Kurds have no designs on Iraq past their immediate area. As I said, I am all pro arming Kurds to the teeth and providing all the support they need. Of course, if they kick ISIS’s butt, ISIS will leave them alone and concentrate on the rest of the country. And Kurds won’t follow them. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/88 "2014-08-08T17:41:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Pin prick. We won’t be changing anything on the ground. I applaud the humanitarian mission, but are we just keeping them alive to die another day? Air strikes reduce them from being able to function as a conventional military force, a conventional military force cannot operate with a hostile power that has complete air superiority. They can continue fighting as an irregular force, but irregular forces by their nature cannot take and hold significant territory. This is why even in the worst provinces of Afghanistan labeled as “Taliban” territory by Western media, the Taliban leadership do not operate openly, there are still Afghan/Western bases etc. Before these air strikes ISIS was legitimately about to start a conventional invasion of Kurdish Iraq in which they’d have probably taken and held for at least awhile some decent chunks of territory. They can’t do that if they’re being bombed. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/89 "2014-08-08T17:41:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Admit it, everyone, who here had ever \*heard \*of the Yazidis before a couple of days ago? I probably would have guessed Yazidis to be some Italian sports car. Back to the topic, I don’t have any sympathy for ISIS. I don’t like groups that want to impose their religion on others and even worse, slaughter or exile those that don’t conform. If we could eliminate all the radicals, great. But I do have sympathy for those innocents who will be collateral damage in these raids. Perhaps it’s unavoidable, but still tragic. Dropping relief to the mountaintop is great, but they’ll have to come down sometime. Hopefully, ISIS will be neutered at some point but I fear that all we are doing is slowing down the inevitable. The ISIS fighters certainly seem to be more invested in the outcome than the Iraqi army. At this point, I agree with Obama’s course of action. If it doesn’t work, we’ll have to revisit. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/90 "2014-08-08T17:43:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Kurds have no designs on Iraq past their immediate area. As I said, I am all pro arming Kurds to the teeth and providing all the support they need. Of course, if they kick ISIS’s butt, ISIS will leave them alone and concentrate on the rest of the country. And Kurds won’t follow them. Who said the Kurds did? I think our major interest here was stopping ISIS from conducting a conventional invasion of Kurdish Iraq, which airstrikes will do. The only way ISIS could continue to fight Kurds would be in unconventional war, which I do not believe ISIS can win due to complete lack of any local support in Kurdish Iraq and the implacability of the Kurds on matters like this. I don’t think Obama would have acted with military force if ISIS hadn’t been moving toward Erbil, I think he probably would have said some stuff but ultimately done nothing if ISIS was solely concerned with taking Baghdad and toppling Maliki. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/91 "2014-08-08T17:44:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Yazidi are refugees wherever they go, they have no safe territory. They are the one topic that both Shia and Sunni are in complete agreement. They have no territory, no army, no money, and no oil. They are geopolitically boned. The Yazidis are Kurds. By “Shi’a and Sunni”, I assume you mean “Arab Shi’a and Sunni”. AFAICT, the Kurds have been pretty secular and I suspect will be willing to take them in. That is not to say they will be treated as equals, but they will hopefully do OK. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/92 "2014-08-08T18:09:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Yazidis are Kurds. By “Shi’a and Sunni”, I assume you mean “Arab Shi’a and Sunni”. AFAICT, the Kurds have been pretty secular and I suspect will be willing to take them in. That is not to say they will be treated as equals, but they will hopefully do OK. If so, that might make the other minorities in Iraqi Kurdistan – Arabs, Turkmens, etc. – feel less nervous about the prospect of an independent Kurdistan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/93 "2014-08-08T18:25:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If so, that might make the other minorities in Iraqi Kurdistan – Arabs, Turkmens, etc. – feel less nervous about the prospect of an independent Kurdistan. I’m no Kurdish experts, but they sure seem to be the closest thing to “good guys” in this conflict. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/94 "2014-08-08T18:31:26Z")
This is a GQ thing, not GD, but as long as we’re kvetching: The guy who just has to be the first person to respond, even though he knows nothing about the answer. Hint: When you use the term “WAG”, and you’re the first responder in that forum, DON’T BE THE FIRST FUCKING RESPONDER!!! Wait until someone who knows what he’s talking about comes along. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/95 "2014-08-08T18:33:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is a GQ thing, not GD, but as long as we’re kvetching… Can you please take your arguments about GQ to… a thread that’s about GQ? :d&r: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/96 "2014-08-08T18:59:09Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/97 "2014-08-08T19:04:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Admit it, everyone, who here had ever \*heard \*of the Yazidis before a couple of days ago? They’ve come up on the board a few times, most prominently in an old pit thread about this [very ugly incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Du%27a_Khalil_Aswad). ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/98 "2014-08-08T19:27:20Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > They’ve come up on the board a few times, most prominently in an old pit thread about this [very ugly incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Du%27a_Khalil_Aswad). Well, that certainly doesn’t inspire much sympathy for them. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/99 "2014-08-08T19:34:28Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Well, that certainly doesn’t inspire much sympathy for them. Well, they’re from a provincial backwater and many have very provincial mores - they live in a world of blood feuds and ritual purity. Doesn’t mean they are all prone to such ugliness and indeed some Yazidi leaders apparently condemned the killing. Regardless it doesn’t excuse some other maniacs from starving/slaughtering/ethnic cleansing or force converting them. Starving Yazidi kids didn’t stone anybody. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073/100 "2014-08-08T20:19:36Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Well, that certainly doesn’t inspire much sympathy for them. Boy, after reading up a bit, I can’t say I’m a huge fan, but no reason we shouldn’t give them water and food and keep them from being slaughtered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isis-youre-going-down/695073.md?page=6)