# Islam cannot coexist with a peaceful world. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000 "2011-04-28T05:54:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/81 "2011-04-28T19:59:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There are more Christians then Muslims in the world. Given that there are people like Fred Phelps who thinks his god hates gay people you should be able to cite the thousands of incidence of gay people murdered by his lot. It must be a staggering number. BTW, I’ll start posting state sponsored capital murders of gay people by Islamic states in response. You destroy your own point. Of course the fanatics in such countries can kill more people - _when they have the government behind them_. Phelps doesn’t refrain from killing people because he’s nice; he does so because people with guns and clubs would show up and throw him in a cage if he did. The Christians do abuse gays on a very large scale as far as they can get away with it. They aren’t better people, they are just being restrained. Christian fanatics have certainly proven they can be just as murderous when given the power of a government to do it with. > [@Magiver](#): > > pssst, start with Hitler because he was a Christian and he stuck all kinds of people in the oven. Just remember you need to show it was a religiously based murder. That’s trivially easy. That’s why the Nazis made such a point of killing Jews after all; the longstanding Christian hatred of them. The Christians had killed Jews in large numbers for centuries, the Nazis weren’t some aberration that way, they differed only in scale. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/82 "2011-04-28T20:36:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Factually it’s at a minimum Kabul, Kandahar, and Mazar-i-Sharif. It wasn’t a single demonstration but many demonstrations spanning at least 4 days with protesters holding signs that say “death to America”. Next time you accuse someone of imagining facts you should research the material like I did. At the very least you owe me an apology. I am sorry that you are not able to comprehend what has been written on the topic. There were demonstrations in several cities, but it hardly included the “entire nation” and most of the deaths were the sort of violence that arises when different factions in a violent country clash. The only murders that occurred were a specific terrorist act that was not a spontaneous action by the protestors, but carried out by a small band, (estimated by one official at about 15 men), that joined the protestors. > [@Magiver](#): > > The xenophobia belongs to those who went apeshit and murdered foreigners who had nothing to do with Reverend jones. That the walking definition of both xenophobia and the term “apeshit”. Well, I have said nothing that places any blame on Jones, so that red herring is silly, but the xenophobia is the sort that you share with the demonstrators. Some people fear and hate that which is different from themselves and your effort to lump the actions of a handful of terrorists who joined a larger protest group first to the larger group and then to extend it to the “entire nation” is pretty clearly an expression of fear and hatred of people who are different and it rises to a level of hyperbole that meets my defintion of “apeshit.” > [@Magiver](#): > > If you don’t like the fact that there are a never ending number of these threads it’s because there are a never ending number of senseless murders by radical Muslims. It is done by a minority of Muslims and it is directly related to Mohammad and his vision on how to deal with blasphemy. It is clearly a function of the religion. The fact that the majority of Muslims choose to act civil does not negate the underlying cause of the behavior. It is not limited to the Middle East any more than fundamentalist Muslims are limited to the Middle East. This is great. You admit, (finally), that the actions are those of a tiny minority, yet you still feel the need to blame the billion Muslims of the world while ignoring centuries of history in which that sort of “Muslim” action never occurred, pretending that the Salafists/Wahhabists, (who arose at around the same recent time as what would become Fundamentalist Christianity), are representative of all Islam in all history. I suppose that works in the way that bin Laden’s accusations against “the West” work, because, of course, all we nasty secularist and Christian Westerners are guilty of moral turpitude. That is your logic, of course. As I already noted, your thought patterns very closely match the patterns of those you fear and hate. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/83 "2011-04-28T20:44:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You destroy your own point. Of course the fanatics in such countries can kill more people - _when they have the government behind them_. Really, what about the first WTC attack? What about 9/11? What about the Ft Hood Shooting? What about the Maryland sniper shootings. What about the Spanish train bombing? What about the London subway bombing? What about The Bali Bombing? What about the Mumbai hotel attack in India. I’ll stop now because my fingers are tired. Clearly there is a problem with radical Islam and it is not restricted in any way to the Middle East. But focusing on the Op we can look at the Middle East to see Muslim on Muslim violence. It is brutal beyond measure but no different than anywhere else. All it says is that there is a higher concentration of radical Islamists. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/84 "2011-04-28T21:25:28Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > …So, does this archaic religion with sub-animalistic proclivities look to you that it can commune with the ideas of a forward-thinking, evolutionary society? :dubious: Assuming you’re completely right about the problem, what’s the solution? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/85 "2011-04-28T21:38:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Clearly there is a problem with radical Islam and it is not restricted in any way to the Middle East. But focusing on the Op we can look at the Middle East to see Muslim on Muslim violence. It is brutal beyond measure but no different than anywhere else. All it says is that there is a higher concentration of radical Islamists. No one would argue that there’s not a _huge_ problem with radical Islam. But the OP is taking the position that there is no Islam _except_ radical Islam, and that any Muslim who doesn’t want to murder infidels isn’t a “real” Muslim. That’s an utterly absurd position to take, particularly given the fact that, while violent radicals may make up a larger proportion of Islam than other major religions, they’re still a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the over all world Islamic population. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/86 "2011-04-28T21:40:20Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am sorry that you are not able to comprehend what has been written on the topic. > > There were demonstrations in several cities, but it hardly included the “entire nation” and most of the deaths were the sort of violence that arises when different factions in a violent country clash. The only murders that occurred were a specific terrorist act that was not a spontaneous action by the protestors, but carried out by a small band, (estimated by one official at about 15 men), that joined the protestors. The hand waving of this by you is unbelievable. I’m not even going to read the rest of your post because you can’t even bother to research the subject. The initial riots killing random people was in Mazar-e Sharif. 12 people were murdered. The following day 9 people died in riots and 73 were injured in Kandahar. They burned cars, set fire to buildings and destroyed a school for girls. These are not peaceful demonstrations. They are shouting “death to America”. Putting aside the suicide bomber attacks this situation is anything but peaceful. The only reason more people haven’t died is because of police protection and even then there was a rampage of murders of innocent people by a policeman. If you think the outer provinces are any more tolerant about blasphemy you can post your cites. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/87 "2011-04-28T22:39:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Interesting name tag you’re using. Seems kinda blasphemous to describe yourself as one who eats Bibles.😉 To calm another of your ignorant fears, [biblio](http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/biblio.html) means ‘book.’ Hence words such as bibliography. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/88 "2011-04-29T00:32:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No one would argue that there’s not a _huge_ problem with radical Islam. But the OP is taking the position that there is no Islam _except_ radical Islam, and that any Muslim who doesn’t want to murder infidels isn’t a “real” Muslim. That’s an utterly absurd position to take, particularly given the fact that, while violent radicals may make up a larger proportion of Islam than other major religions, they’re still a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the over all world Islamic population. I took the meaning differently and maybe the op can clarify it. To me the argument made is along the lines of the 80/20 rule. Only in this case the ratio would be more like 97/3. We currently can’t have Islam without a small percentage of highly motivated crazy people creating havoc. It’s a package deal. On one side is a huge population of Muslims who are indistinguishable from any other demographic. On the short side is a ruthless group of people who demand total subservience to their ideals and beliefs. If that is the argument then addressing the core problem involves the religion in some way. As the Reverend Jones has unnecessarily pointed out, we’re not allowed to criticize the violent nature of the religion that is the root cause. He put the religion on trial and a random group of people were executed because of it. It is blasphemy to point out that Mohamed executed people who were blasphemous. It’s a real problem when someone who doesn’t want freedom of speech thinks another nation shouldn’t have it either. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/89 "2011-04-29T00:45:35Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I don’t know. It was just more of a comment of the use of a slogan that was so wee known that is comparable to advertising slogans, which no other religions seem to have, It is a slogan that we only see in English language speakers discourse, and I see it more among the Islamophobes than others. It is, it As for other religions and slogans, you evidently have never been in a place where the Christians are evangilising, otherwise you would not write such as no other religions have slogans.Christian evangilising slogans in Africa are everywhere and very irritating too in their vulgar style. You are mrely ignorant of this as Christian things are natural to you as a hard Christian. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/90 "2011-04-29T01:41:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The hand waving of this by you is unbelievable. I’m not even going to read the rest of your post because you can’t even bother to research the subject. The initial riots killing random people was in Mazar-e Sharif. 12 people were murdered. The following day 9 people died in riots and 73 were injured in Kandahar. They burned cars, set fire to buildings and destroyed a school for girls. These are not peaceful demonstrations. They are shouting “death to America”. Putting aside the suicide bomber attacks this situation is anything but peaceful. The only reason more people haven’t died is because of police protection and even then there was a rampage of murders of innocent people by a policeman. > > If you think the outer provinces are any more tolerant about blasphemy you can post your cites. I see. You won’t read my post because it might conflict with the ideas that you have invented to ascribe to me. That is about par for the course. (Note, I have made no claim that there were any peaceful protests. I simply noted that the murders were carried out by a terrorist group using the demonstration as cover. You have still failed to demonstrate that any “entire nation” has gone “apeshit” and I stiil consider the way that you paint an entire religion with your broad brush to be pretty much equivalent to the way that some members of that religion paint “the West” with their broad brush.) ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/91 "2011-04-29T17:12:52Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > You just can’t make up this kind of comedy gold. The good news is that there are no living real Muslims anymore, since the definition of real Muslim now requires one to have exploded, so we’re all safe, Muslims don’t exist anymore. The royal wedding today was a perfect opportunity for terrorists, but so far at least, none of the estimated 1.6 million muslims living in the UK have exploded. Sablicious doesn’t seem to realise there are a large number of these chemically-inert fake muslims about. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/92 "2011-04-29T17:20:26Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > The royal wedding today was a perfect opportunity for terrorists, but so far at least, none of the estimated 1.6 million muslims living in the UK have exploded. Sablicious doesn’t seem to realise there are a large number of these chemically-inert fake muslims about. Maybe they are using a Moslem calendar and have the date wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/93 "2011-04-29T21:10:46Z")
I think they were all too happy about getting the day off. Even terrorists like a free holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/94 "2011-04-29T21:22:19Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > The royal wedding today was a perfect opportunity for terrorists, but so far at least, none of the estimated 1.6 million muslims living in the UK have exploded. Sablicious doesn’t seem to realise there are a large number of these chemically-inert fake muslims about. Nah, it’s all because of the Queen. She doesn’t react with Muslims. She can’t: she’s a noble lass. D&R ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000/95 "2011-04-29T22:06:48Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is a slogan that we only see in English language speakers discourse, and I see it more among the Islamophobes than others. It is, it > > As for other religions and slogans, you evidently have never been in a place where the Christians are evangilising, otherwise you would not write such as no other religions have slogans.Christian evangilising slogans in Africa are everywhere and very irritating too in their vulgar style. You are mrely ignorant of this as Christian things are natural to you as a hard Christian. Hi **Ramira** and thank you for your post. Could you give a example of these slogans (translated into English). I am aware from my travel to Haiti of the saying Jesus is King, which is displayed in many places, but that it more of a sign of respect and Love to the King, not a attempt to evangelize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-cannot-coexist-with-a-peaceful-world/580000.md?page=4)