# Islam in the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396 "2017-07-02T22:56:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/121 "2017-07-06T18:13:20Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Whether I say, “Conservatism is a savage ideology” or “Conservatives are savages”, I am pretty sure it will be taken the same way. Judging by your previous post I think you probably mean the same thing regardless of the way you phrase it. Personally I feel the distinction is clear and very important. One is an attack on _thoughts_ and _beliefs_, the other is an attack on _people_. > [@](#): > > I don’t even know how you criticize “Islam”. Give me an example of some criticism you would like to make of Islam but aren’t able to do it for fear of being called a bigot or something. I don’t personally fear being called a bigot. As for a direct criticism of Islam that is pretty simple to do. Just read the book or listen to the teachings and when something is said that seems at odds with your own views…criticise. It really is just the same as criticising anything else. > [@](#): > > That’s fine, but as I’ve said repeatedly in this thread, one approach leads to mistrust and mutual isolation. The other approach leads to combatting actual problems. That is where we fundamentally disagree. The cause and effect relationship you paint is simplistic and unhelpful. > [@](#): > > You feel the need to criticize Islam. Not particularly, but in terms of a source of bad ideas I do think we should treat it no differently to any other religious or political ideology, worldview or set of beliefs. > [@](#): > > Have fun with it. Nobody has ever said you couldn’t. No permission needed or requested. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/122 "2017-07-06T19:30:55Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Judging by your previous post I think you probably mean the same thing regardless of the way you phrase it. Personally I feel the distinction is clear and very important. One is an attack on _thoughts_ and _beliefs_, the other is an attack on _people_. It’s not what I am thinking that matters, but what the people who hear me think. The approach I favor unambiguously communicates a message concerning my stance on the poor support of gender equality, LGBTQ rights, anti-science claptrap, etc. The approach I prefer to avoid does not unambiguously communicate such a message and stupidly risks an ‘us vs them’ mentality. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t personally fear being called a bigot. As for a direct criticism of Islam that is pretty simple to do. Just read the book or listen to the teachings and when something is said that seems at odds with your own views…criticise. It really is just the same as criticising anything else. Give me an example. I sincerely have not a clue what I would want to criticize about Islam. Just an example if you will. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That is where we fundamentally disagree. The cause and effect relationship you paint is simplistic and unhelpful. It’s nearly universal in human social interactions to respond defensively to criticism of a part of your identity from a perceived outsider. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/123 "2017-07-06T20:33:01Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Give me an example. I sincerely have not a clue what I would want to criticize about Islam. Just an example if you will. So don’t criticise it, I’m not going to tell you how to think. And there is no need to get bogged down in specific individual criticism of elements of Islam. Any I raise would be arguable (and that’s the point) and irrelevant to my wider of point of there needing to be a willingness to criticise and accept criticism. You however, seem to be tacitly accepting the point that Islam is a perfect ideology, a perfect way of life, a perfect teaching supported by a perfect text. Now, either it is perfect or there are, in theory, legitimate things to criticise…which is it? > [@](#): > > It’s nearly universal in human social interactions to respond defensively to criticism of a part of your identity from a perceived outsider. Firstly, it is not the criticism itself that makes people defensive, it is always the context, the style and intent. Secondly, it is incredibly patronising to assume on behalf of the muslims that they are incapable of handling criticism of their faith. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/124 "2017-07-06T23:39:05Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Firstly, it is not the criticism itself that makes people defensive, it is always the context, the style and intent. The relevant context is an outsider making the criticism and the normal human response to such criticisms found everywhere on the planet where human beings roam. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Secondly, it is incredibly patronising to assume on behalf of the muslims that they are incapable of handling criticism of their faith. You seem to be the one holding Muslims to an unfairly high standard. I was identifying a general pattern of human social behavior. I wouldn’t expect any particular group to behave differently. And I believe Muslims, like everyone else, handle such criticisms the best way imaginable: to tell the uninvited critic to take a hike. Or to take a long walk off a short pier. Or to make like a tree and leave. Or just to simply fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/125 "2017-07-07T03:34:55Z")
I have been reading along but not posting very much, mostly because **Novelty Bobble** has said everything I wanted to. But there are a few things I want to add. > [@Gestalt](#): > > The following is another survey which was conducted by a “center right” (according to business insider) institution: [Policy Exchange Poll of Muslim Attitudes and Beliefs on Who Planned 9/11 - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/policy-exchange-survey-muslim-attitudes-beliefs-911-september-11-2016-12) > > I do not know the methodologies of these surveys and cannot vouch for the validity of the results. Because I put the original findings in a quote tag, I can’t requote them, but I did copy&paste them: 43% support the introduction of some forms of Sharia law. 44% believe schools should be able to insist on “a hijab or niqab” as part of the uniform. 15% believe art or music should not be taught in school (artistic representations of humans are regarded as idolatry in some forms of Islamic belief). 10% would not ban tutoring that “promotes extreme views or is deemed incompatible with fundamental British values.” But the biggest point survey results show that more UK Muslims believe Jews perpetrated the 9/11 attacks than believe Al Qaeda planned it These are large percentages. I’m not too concerned about the “sharia law” one, because again that can be interpreted broadly and currently is used more for arbitration (as is my understanding). Also I would not be surprised if 43% of Christians in America thought that are laws should directly stem from the Bible (not that “what Christians in America think” is the best standard for reasonability, but just to point out that this is not as extreme a belief as it would be on first blush). Also the 10% and 15% numbers I’m not too concerned by, for the same reasons. But the other ones . . . almost half believe schools should be able to “insist” on a hijab? That seems pretty out there (to the point where I am questioning the validity of the study, and will hunt around a bit to see what I can find) Also more than half thought that 9/11 was perpetrated by Jews? That’s pretty out-there. Now again the question is . . . is this a problem that we should “do something about?” Or should we just sort of assume that this view will peter out with time? Which again brings me to my broader question of, is it just a matter of time before Muslims integrate into the mainstream like everybody else? Or is this a different situation? **Tomndebb** has made his stance clear, and I’m inclined to agree with him . . . while I don’t think this is “okay,” I don’t really see much that we can do about it without further alienating people. Although I do think there is a point to be made about “liberal European values” around which we base much of our laws and culture. At some point we may have to let some of these go for the sake of societal harmony . . . like I can easily forsee a situation in which a Muslim community wishes for the local government to enact some kind of legal penalty if a Muslim burns the Quran (like a small fine, community service). This would violate both the idea of free speech and that all people should be treated equally by the law. For a better current example (outside of the UK), in India (and other countries), polygamy is illegal . . .except for Muslims, for whom it’s legal. [Legality of polygamy - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_polygamy#Countries_that_only_recognize_polygamous_marriages_for_Muslims) India is, in theory, a secular liberal democracy (again, in theory) whose culture of law is based largely on the British. But what would Western European countries think of such an arrangement? I imagine in the US it would be unconstitutional. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > The area I live in officially only has 33% Muslim residents but at the schools it’s a different story - two thirds of school students are from a Bangladeshi background, though at secondary school it’s over 90%. (From here [Diversity](http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/community_and_living/borough_statistics/diversity.aspx)) That leads to what is disparagingly called white flight but it annoys me that people act like this has no consequences for the non-Bangladeshi kids, especially the girls. Their classmates aren’t just a different colour to them, they speak a different language (usually they will speak English but can switch to Bengali if they want to), go to the same mosques, have parents who are friends, and attend many of the same social occasions. For girls it’s a particular problem because their classmates are expected to go home and help their mothers or study, not hang out with white friends. So the white girls are left with few options for socialisation with schoolfriends. Boys are better off if they play football. > > So those non-Bangladeshi (not may white) parents who can leave often do by secondary school age, and the proportion of Bangladeshi kids at secondary school gets even higher. My daughter’s IT class was even partly conducted in Bengali, which she doesn’t speak. Although in most ways this has been a great place to bring up a child I have to admit that being in a tiny minority at secondary school has had its problems. What about this? Is **Sam’s** daughter, or her Bengali classmates, missing out on something by schooling in such a homogenous environment? This is a problem we face in the US too . . . to solve it for a while we tried bussing kids to schools outside their neighborhood, which didn’t really work, AFAIK. Might it work here? Again, I think probably not, especially given the evidence that many Muslim families would rather home school than expose their children to an environment they deemed too secular (or whatever–I’m not sure what problem the Muslim parents had with the new Trojan Horse schools). BTW, **Sam** , whatever happened with the IT class taught in Bengali? Did that change? > [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > It’s not what I am thinking that matters, but what the people who hear me think. The approach I favor unambiguously communicates a message concerning my stance on the poor support of gender equality, LGBTQ rights, anti-science claptrap, etc. > > The approach I prefer to avoid does not unambiguously communicate such a message and stupidly risks an ‘us vs them’ mentality . . . > It’s nearly universal in human social interactions to respond defensively to criticism of a part of your identity from a perceived outsider. If your general point is that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, then yes, I agree. But ultimately if the reason that people are opposed to LGBT rights is their religion, that’s going to factor into the debate, otherwise it’s impossible to have a discussion if one side isn’t going to say why they feel the way they feel. And overall also I agree with **Novelty** that while criticizing a religion may make practitioners feel insulted, marginalized and dehumanized, it doesn’t have to. Obviously the critics should use as fair and neutral phrasing as possible, but the religionists also have a responsibility to gauge the validity of the criticism, not immediately retreat behind a veil of “they’re bigoted racists to say bad things about our religion. They hate Islam and Muslims! Let’s not listen.” > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Hindu and Muslim immigrants to the UK were drawn from entirely different economic, cultural and ethnic groups. If you placed a million Hindu Bihari villagers in northern England instead of a million Kashmiri villagers I don’t think the outcomes would be much better. (I say this as someone who is extremely critical both of mass immigration to Europe and the UK, and also someone who’s theologically opposed to Islam: I don’t think _religion_ per se is that central to the problem here). **Hector** , that’s interesting and something I wasn’t aware of. It makes sense given that Indians and Pakistani immigrants seem to be equally successful in the US. Do you have any cites for that? Not that I disbelieve you, I was just wondering if this was a phenomenon you had observed or if someone had actually studied it. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/126 "2017-07-07T03:43:24Z")
Also, our last president, who had spent a portion of his childhood in Indonesia and was familiar at least with some aspects of Muslim culture, said this in an interview with the Atlantic: [The Obama Doctrine: What the President Actually Thinks About Radical Islam - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/06/obama-radical-islam/487079/) > [@](#): > > Early in his first term, Obama believed (rather too naively, in my opinion) that he could, in fact, make a substantive difference. He delivered a speech in Cairo that was meant to reset relations with Muslims, but was also meant, he later told me, to challenge Muslims to cease manufacturing excuses for problems of their own making. He told me recently, in reference to the Cairo speech, “My argument was this. Let’s all stop pretending that the cause of the Middle East’s problems is Israel. We want to work to help achieve statehood and dignity for the Palestinians, but I was hoping that my speech could trigger a discussion, could create space for Muslims to address the real problems they are confronting—problems of governance, and the fact that some currents of Islam have not gone through a reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.” . . . “There is … the need for Islam as a whole to challenge that interpretation of Islam, to isolate it, and to undergo a vigorous discussion within their community about how Islam works as part of a peaceful, modern society,” Obama told me. > > He immediately pivoted from this statement, though, by addressing Donald Trump—not by name, but his target was obvious. “I do not persuade peaceful, tolerant Muslims to engage in that debate,” he said, “if I’m not sensitive to their concern that they are being tagged with a broad brush.” I think Mr. Obama is very wise and is an extremely effective communicator and unifier, so I suspect that his reluctance to more directly address this issue and his sensitivity to the concerns of the Muslim community is well-founded. Like I said above, this discussion has convinced me that the best way to address concerns we have about terrorism, extremist views and segregation is to provide outlets for communities to address this on their own, but not insist upon it. I maintain that the unwillingness of people to face criticisms of their community is irrational, but I’m not going to change any hearts or minds by screaming at the owners of said hearts and minds that they are being hysterical and irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/127 "2017-07-07T16:41:20Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > 43% support the introduction of some forms of Sharia law. > 44% believe schools should be able to insist on “a hijab or niqab” as part of the uniform. > 15% believe art or music should not be taught in school (artistic representations of humans are regarded as idolatry in some forms of Islamic belief). > 10% would not ban tutoring that “promotes extreme views or is deemed incompatible with fundamental British values.” > But the biggest point survey results show that more UK Muslims believe Jews perpetrated the 9/11 attacks than believe Al Qaeda planned it > … > Now again the question is . . . is this a problem that we should “do something about?” We’ve already done what we can about it. Sharia Law is not going to be our law. It’s silly to believe this can ever happen in the USA or UK. Hijabs and Niqabs will not be a part of school uniforms. Give me one plausible pathway to that becoming reality. Education handles the rest. The something we need to do is already done. This question of “What to do about Muslim immigrants’ beliefs” reminds me of Rand Paul filibustering until Obama addressed using drones to kill US citizens inside our borders. It was never a problem because there are already laws against such behavior and it’s ridiculous to worry about it. > [@Gestalt](#): > > If your general point is that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, then yes, I agree. No, that’s not what I am saying at all. I am saying you solve problems by addressing the problems. If your concern is gender equality but you want to only discuss FGM among certain groups of Muslim immigrants, then you aren’t really addressing gender equality. By approaching gender equality in such a way, you: 1. Miss tackling far bigger problems in gender equality that need to be worked on. 2. Enable bigots to take your well-meaning campaign and focus it more on the “problem” of these immigrants than the problem of FGM. 3. Protect FGM by 3a) creating mistrust between communities so the topic cannot be easily discussed, and 3b) reducing immigration from a part of the world that generally accepts FGM to a part of the world that does not. > [@Gestalt](#): > > But ultimately if the reason that people are opposed to LGBT rights is their religion, that’s going to factor into the debate, otherwise it’s impossible to have a discussion if one side isn’t going to say why they feel the way they feel. No, you present reasons for LGBT rights, you support those rights strongly, you enforce education of children to accept LGBT rights, you consistently prosecute when LGBT rights are violated. Eventually, the adherents to this or that religion will re-interpret their religion to match their cultural support for LGBT rights. Go after peoples’ faith, and you do nothing for LGBT rights. So I am not discussing vinegar and honey at all. I am discussing respecting people, earning their trust, and accomplishing your goals. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/128 "2017-07-07T16:47:59Z")
Let me talk once again about the Hmong, who started coming into the USA in the mid 70’s, and their cultural tradition of marrying 12-14 year old girls to men in their 30’s. When they continued to do this in the USA, they were prosecuted for it, rightfully so. Many of them tried to claim that this was just their culture and they should be allowed to continue doing it. We in the USA said No, this is the law, and no one gets any kind of exemption for cultural reasons. We continued to prosecute the offenders each time, we held the line, and eventually, they stopped doing it and it stopped being a part of the Hmong-American culture. At no point did we attack their culture. So the same with LGBT rights. We hold the line, we prosecute violations. When they claim religious exemption, we say ‘NO, this is the LAW’ and continue to prosecute them. Eventually, people get the message. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/129 "2017-07-07T16:51:53Z")
So how’s it going with the Mormon’s and polygamy. A friend posted some photos from a Salt Lake carpark the other day; two ladies identically dressed. Very nce. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Sanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rick\_Sanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/130 "2017-07-07T16:54:10Z")
> [@Inbred Mm Domesticus](#): > > We’ve already done what we can about it. Sharia Law is not going to be our law. It’s silly to believe this can ever happen in the USA or UK. Hijabs and Niqabs will not be a part of school uniforms. Give me one plausible pathway to that becoming reality. A muslim majority votes for it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/131 "2017-07-07T16:55:04Z")
> [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > A muslim majority votes for it. And the likelihood of having a muslim majority in the USA or UK in your lifetime is what now? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/132 "2017-07-07T16:58:35Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > But the other ones . . . almost half believe schools should be able to “insist” on a hijab? That seems pretty out there (to the point where I am questioning the validity of the study, and will hunt around a bit to see what I can find) I’m not a Muslim, but I think schools should be able to insist on a hijab. Not public schools, obviously, but private schools? If a bunch of Jews can set up a private school and insist students wear yarmulkes, or a bunch of Mormons can set up a private school and insist students dress like “Little House on the Prairie,” a bunch of Muslims should be able to set up a private school and insist students wear hijabs. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/133 "2017-07-07T17:29:37Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > So how’s it going with the Mormon’s and polygamy. A friend posted some photos from a Salt Lake carpark the other day; two ladies identically dressed. Very nce. Very successfully. There are people who violate the law. I’m completely unsure if the picture you saw has anything to do with Mormons who still attempt to practice polygamy. > [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > A muslim majority votes for it. Now try a plausible one. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/134 "2017-07-07T17:49:22Z")
Poligamy should be legal as long as the parties are of age and enter willingly. There is no way the government should interfere in consensual non violent actions between adults. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/135 "2017-07-07T17:52:46Z")
I don’t care about polygamy; just pointing to the absurdity of Chimera’s flag waving nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/136 "2017-07-07T17:59:59Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I don’t care about polygamy; just pointing to the absurdity of Chimera’s flag waving nonsense. Why is it absurd? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/137 "2017-07-07T18:06:57Z")
And what about it is “flag waving?” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/138 "2017-07-07T18:11:36Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I don’t care about polygamy; just pointing to the absurdity of Chimera’s flag waving nonsense. If you are sincere in wanting to communicate with others and discuss issues, you should drop the hyperbole and nonsense statements like this and come at others in a less hostile style. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/139 "2017-07-07T19:04:09Z")
My school had a uniform hijab. Of course, it was only worn by two students at the time, but the school did insist they had to be a particular colour. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396/140 "2017-07-07T19:33:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not a Muslim, but I think schools should be able to insist on a hijab. Not public schools, obviously, but private schools? If a bunch of Jews can set up a private school and insist students wear yarmulkes, or a bunch of Mormons can set up a private school and insist students dress like “Little House on the Prairie,” a bunch of Muslims should be able to set up a private school and insist students wear hijabs. Oh yes, agreed on the private schools, I was referring to public schools. My understanding is that in the UK, what we call private schools here are called public schools, and what we call public schools are called . . . government schools? I don’t know. But I also thought the “private” (i.e. non-state-run) school industry in the UK wasn’t as robust as in the US, and relatively few students went to those kind of schools. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-in-the-uk/790396.md?page=8)