# Islam is a Violent Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497 "2006-06-05T16:30:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/261 "2006-06-17T06:03:41Z")
BTW, how does “not deserving of basic respect” equate to “inciting rape?” There are people whom I respect very much and then there are people whom I do not respect at all. And I have no intention of raping anyone. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/262 "2006-06-17T08:23:16Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How about replacing “muslim [sic]” with “Christian” and maybe then you’ll see that you’re not really debating in this forum; you’re ranting at worst. At best, you’re just refusing to recognize facts. You know what? Replacing muslim [sick] with ‘Christian’ is the usual blah blah blah that I get to hear - and totally off-topic. I am NOT bothered by Christians. Christians don’t rape women who refuse to wear a…cross. In other words, for the slow minded: Muslims [sick] use their religion to commit atrocities **every goddamned day.** > [@](#): > > _The rest of your posting was really Pit material, IMHO, but I’ll go ahead and ask you: What have YOU personally done about Fred Phelps? What have YOU personally done about those who target abortion clinics? What have YOU personally done about thow who kill doctors who perform abortions? Mind you, all of those to whom I refer do so under the guise of Christianity._ I…DO…NOT…BELIEVE. Never have, never will. Once again: I AM AN ATHEÏST. Every person that uses his/her religion to commit crimes ought to be locked up for a long, very long, time. The fact is, though: I hear the same ‘FredPhelpsabortionclinickillabortiondoctors’ over and over again. Think of something new, why don’t you. In the meantime: Muslims [sick] - like I said - will go on and on and on, every minute of every day, commiting crimes. Inshallah. > [@Monty](#): > > BTW, how does “not deserving of basic respect” equate to “inciting rape?” There are people whom I respect very much and then there are people whom I do not respect at all. And I have no intention of raping anyone. Now you’re delibarately avoiding the point. If a mufti, a jurist who interprets Islamic law says a women doesn’t deserve respect, when her hair is not covered and French and Danish experts say perpetrators of gang-rape flounder between their parents’ Islamic values and society’s more liberal democratic values falling back on the most basic pack mentality of violence and self-gratification, what do you think young muslims will do? And you haven’t giving me any cites about feminists and human rights organisations condemning these atrocities. ? "Yet in Australia racially motivated gang-rape is met by gutless censorship from multicultural man. And like our Muslim leaders, Australian feminists have been unusually quiet on this gender issue. Ignoring it exacerbates it. A large group of Muslim boys involved in these gang-rapes is still at large. The Muslim community’s refusal to acknowledge cultural issues spells disaster for more innocent young women terrorised by Muslim boys hiding behind their ethnicity". ---
**Author:** ![FWorld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FWorld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FWorld)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/263 "2006-06-17T12:39:25Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Could you give me some cites, because I can’t hear them. Your question was about Muslims condemning atrocities committed by other Muslims in the name of Islam. How about [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7493118&postcount=247) As you noted, the author is Abdel Rahman al Rashed, president of Al Arabiya news channel, a major Arabic news network owned by Saudis and based in Dubai. His article was published in Al Sharq al Awsat, a Saudi newspaper. And do not use the term ‘Muslim pigs’. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/264 "2006-06-17T12:45:55Z")
> [@gum](#): > > The fact is, though: I hear the same ‘FredPhelpsabortionclinickillabortiondoctors’ over and over again. > Think of something new, why don’t you. My irony meter just broke. This from the poster who enters every thread with a Muslim topic with the refrain of ‘MuslimsareevilevilevilandvileandIslamishatefulandhostileanddangerousandevilvile’? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/265 "2006-06-17T13:35:33Z")
> [@gum](#): > > [Kimstu, I shall not debate with you on this subject. > Someone who makes a living out of islam can’t be very objective. > Your boss wouldn’t be too happy when you proclaimed islam an idiotic religion/political doctrine, right?] Boy, what a catastrophic melange of misinterpretation and distortion in a mere two sentences. (Not to mention a dash of deliberate insult in the suggestion that I must be incapable of objectivity on this subject because my professional work involves Islamic history and culture.) Let’s straighten this out a bit for the benefit of our readers: 1. My project supervisor here in the Netherlands, who’s the closest thing I’ve got to a boss but who has no control over the content of my work, is a Dutch Arabist who’s even more negative about modern theocratic-extremist Islam than I am, in addition to being openly critical of much organized religion in general. If I decided that I thought Islam was an “idiotic doctrine”, he wouldn’t care, and if he did care, there’s nothing he could do about it. 2. You’ve got your “career-advantage” insinuations exactly backwards: as it happens, the real financial opportunities for me would be in anti-Islamic bias, not pro-Islamic. Not only is there serious American conservative think-tank money out there for reasonably well-respected academics who are willing to climb aboard the anti-Muslim bandwagon, but since my primary area is India, I’d be the darling of the well-heeled Hindu-nationalist crowd too. Yup, if I were only willing to peddle the lies and distortions about Islam that the modern non-Muslim conservative elites worldwide like to hear, I could have a pretty bright financial future. Unfortunately, I was educated in the belief that a scholar’s first duty is honesty, which disqualifies me from career opportunities as a bigoted propagandist. Darn. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/266 "2006-06-17T19:36:08Z")
> [@gum](#): > > You know what? > Replacing muslim [sick] with ‘Christian’ is the usual blah blah blah that I get to hear - and totally off-topic. > I am NOT bothered by Christians. > Christians don’t rape women who refuse to wear a…cross. Haven’t some men raped women who’ve been wearing clothes they consider immodest? Haven’t some of those men been Christians? > [@](#): > > In other words, for the slow minded: Muslims [sick] use their religion to commit atrocities **every goddamned day.** “[sic]” is a convention in written English to indicate that what I quoted from you was your own misspelling. Muslim is not written with a lower-case m. And to imply, as you do, that all Muslims commit atrocities and do so in their name of their religion all the time is a flat-out lie. > [@](#): > > I…DO…NOT…BELIEVE. > Never have, never will. > Once again: I AM AN ATHEÏST. What does that have to do with my posting? > [@](#): > > Every person that uses his/her religion to commit crimes ought to be locked up for a long, very long, time. Oh, you finally got around to a sensible comment. > [@](#): > > The fact is, though: I hear the same ‘FredPhelpsabortionclinickillabortiondoctors’ over and over again. > Think of something new, why don’t you. Why don’t you? All you’re doing, for the most part, is tossing out incorrect assertions and prejudicial comments. > [@](#): > > In the meantime: Muslims [sick] - like I said - will go on and on and on, every minute of every day, commiting crimes. > Inshallah. The Muslims I’ve known, especially those with whom I served in my country’s Armed Forces, didn’t commit crimes in the name of God. > [@](#): > > Now you’re delibarately avoiding the point. That is a lie. > [@](#): > > If a mufti, a jurist who interprets Islamic law says a women doesn’t deserve respect, when her hair is not covered and French and Danish experts say perpetrators of gang-rape flounder between their parents’ Islamic values and society’s more liberal democratic values falling back on the most basic pack mentality of violence and self-gratification, what do you think young muslims will do? Depends on the young Muslims concerned. Most people are decent, IMHO. And for those people who aren’t, it’s certainly not the fault of the jurist. > [@](#): > > And you haven’t giving me any cites about feminists and human rights organisations condemning these atrocities. > ? What are you on about? > [@](#): > > "Yet in Australia racially motivated gang-rape is met by gutless censorship from multicultural man. And like our Muslim leaders, Australian feminists have been unusually quiet on this gender issue. > > Ignoring it exacerbates it. A large group of Muslim boys involved in these gang-rapes is still at large. The Muslim community’s refusal to acknowledge cultural issues spells disaster for more innocent young women terrorised by Muslim boys hiding behind their ethnicity". Interesting. I wasn’t aware that religion equated to ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/267 "2006-06-18T04:09:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’m not, actually. In fact, I said in my post that broadcasting restraints on televised nudity and sex were pretty low on my list of free-speech concerns. It’s a measure of the weakness of your argument that you need to construct a strawman like that. Yes, you said that. And then you went on to say: **"But it’s silly to pretend that our somewhat prudish broadcasting restrictions don’t have anything to do with Christian groups aggressively promoting censorship, or that they amount to nothing more than politely “asking for a little decorum”.** Our definition of “agressively promoting censorship” differ considerably and my post reflected it. My American strawman sits comfortably in front of roaring fire, watching Madonna mock Christianity on MTV. How’s the Islamic cartoon thing doing in your neck of the woods? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/268 "2006-06-18T06:30:30Z")
Talking about cartoons: [Turkey bans Winnie the Pooh because it has a Piglet in it.](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19503274-1702,00.html?from=rss) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/269 "2006-06-18T07:19:57Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Talking about cartoons: > > [Turkey bans Winnie the Pooh because it has a Piglet in it.](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19503274-1702,00.html?from=rss) From your own cite, > [@](#): > > …Winnie the Pooh has been aired on other television channels in Turkey and its videos are easily available at the stores… and this, > [@](#): > > …Employees have recently complained of increasing government intervention in TRT’s broadcasting policy, including also the appointment of ruling party cronies to key posts at the institution, which runs several television and radio channels… sounds just like what happened to [PBS in the US](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBS#Criticism_and_controversy). CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/270 "2006-06-18T12:25:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And then you went on to say:"But it’s silly to pretend that our somewhat prudish broadcasting restrictions don’t have anything to do with Christian groups aggressively promoting censorship, or that they amount to nothing more than politely “asking for a little decorum”. > > Our definition of “agressively promoting censorship” differ considerably and my post reflected it. My American strawman sits comfortably in front of roaring fire, watching Madonna mock Christianity on MTV. Again, you’re misinterpreting my words to conceal the weakness of your argument. I didn’t say that American anti-indecency laws are currently enforcing “aggressive censorship”; in fact, I called them nothing more than “somewhat prudish”. Whatever their level of restrictiveness, though, they do indeed constitute legal censorship, no matter how much you try to disguise that with coy phrases like “asking for a little decorum”. Pretending that laws are nothing more than polite requests is disingenuous. Moreover, the mild prudishness of the laws **is** partly due to Christian groups that **do** aggressively promote much stronger censorship than the laws currently enforce. Do you really imagine that if Christian groups like the American Family Association had free rein, you’d still be able to watch Madonna mocking Christianity on MTV? Like hell. Severely restrictive censorship is indeed what many Christian “pro-decency” groups in the US are after, not just “a little decorum”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/271 "2006-06-18T23:40:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Again, you’re misinterpreting my words to conceal the weakness of your argument. I didn’t say that American anti-indecency laws are currently enforcing “aggressive censorship”; in fact, I called them nothing more than “somewhat prudish”. > > Whatever their level of restrictiveness, though, they do indeed constitute legal censorship, no matter how much you try to disguise that with coy phrases like “asking for a little decorum”. Pretending that laws are nothing more than polite requests is disingenuous. I’m not sure where you’re going with this because you’re the one making the claim, not me. I haven’t elevated censorship laws to anything beyond public opinion (as opposed to Christian opinion). What I have done is compare general censorship in the United States to Islamic censorship, which is a brutal reality in the Mid-East. That is the point of this debate. If you have evidence of Christian censorship in the United States then you should provide it for discussion. Keep in mind, it has to be something dictated by a Christian organization. You cannot imply it because Christians represent a large percentage of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/272 "2006-06-19T12:55:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What I have done is compare general censorship in the United States to Islamic censorship, which is a brutal reality in the Mid-East. That is the point of this debate. Well, what you said that prompted my response to you was actually a comparison of censorship in the US to censorship **in Europe** , in post #232: > [@Magiver](#): > > We have more freedom of speech in the US than Europe has with its hate speech laws. The difference is that we ask for a little decorum when broadcast media is used. I was simply pointing out that your coy expression “ask for a little decorum” is disingenuous when referring to legal prohibitions against indecency. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/273 "2006-06-19T13:48:44Z")
“_A little decorum_”? In a land where Ann Coulter is getting rich? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/274 "2006-06-19T15:24:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, what you said that prompted my response to you was actually a comparison of censorship in the US to censorship **in Europe** , in post #232: > > I was simply pointing out that your coy expression “ask for a little decorum” is disingenuous when referring to legal prohibitions against indecency. There is nothing disingenuous about my remarks regarding decency laws because they are not directed by a religious edict. It is a cultural demand that changes over time. We have levels of expected behavior that transcend religion. That’s the meaning of the word “decorum”. It is the concept of accepted conventions of behavior that is practiced by atheists and Christians alike. You keep trying to redirect the debate of the violent nature of Islam and related religious censorship by discussing Christian censorship in the United States. I’ve asked for a single example of a religious directive in the United States that has the force of law. You’ve provided none. In order for this to be a debate you have to back up what you say and show how it’s relevant to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/275 "2006-06-19T15:34:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “_A little decorum_”? In a land where Ann Coulter is getting rich? Really? Ann Coulter appreciation day was last week. But since you managed to get her name into a sentence what is your point regarding free speech and Christian censorship in the United States? This is Great Debates and not the Pit so any one-liners should be accompanied by some line of reasoning. Otherwise it just hangs there like a trolling soundbite. You could, of course try your hand at the 2 debates that involve her. Should be easier to fling monkey poo when she’s the subject of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/276 "2006-06-19T15:36:16Z")
Just a comment about hypocrisy, pal. Log in yer own eye. Heal thyself. All that stuff that gets in the way of an indignant rant. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497/277 "2006-06-19T16:35:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You keep trying to redirect the debate of the violent nature of Islam and related religious censorship by discussing Christian censorship in the United States. I’ve asked for a single example of a religious directive in the United States that has the force of law. More strawman arguments. I haven’t claimed that there **is** a “religious directive in the United States that has the force of law”. Nor have I asserted the existence of literal “Christian censorship in the United States”. Nor, by the way, am I trying to “redirect the debate of the violent nature of Islam and related religious censorship”. If you want to drop the subject of American anti-indecency laws and go back to talking about Islamic censorship, that’s fine with me. But as long as you keep on misrepresenting what I’ve said, I’m going to keep on correcting you. So let’s review what I’ve actually said on this subject here: > [@Kimstu](#): > > “Ask for a little decorum”, in this case, equates to “use anti-indecency laws to levy fines on broadcasters that show something considered insufficiently decorous”. > > Mind you, i personally don’t regard televised nudity or sexual content as my primary concern when it comes to free-speech priorities. But it’s silly to pretend that our somewhat prudish broadcasting restrictions don’t have anything to do with Christian groups aggressively promoting censorship, or that they amount to nothing more than politely “asking for a little decorum”. […] > > I didn’t say that American anti-indecency laws are currently enforcing “aggressive censorship”; in fact, I called them nothing more than “somewhat prudish”. > > Whatever their level of restrictiveness, though, they do indeed constitute legal censorship, no matter how much you try to disguise that with coy phrases like “asking for a little decorum”. Pretending that laws are nothing more than polite requests is disingenuous. > > Moreover, the mild prudishness of the laws is partly due to Christian groups that do aggressively promote much stronger censorship than the laws currently enforce. Do you really imagine that if Christian groups like the American Family Association had free rein, you’d still be able to watch Madonna mocking Christianity on MTV? Like hell. > > Severely restrictive censorship is indeed what many Christian “pro-decency” groups in the US are after, not just “a little decorum”. In other words, I object to the trivializing description of legal censorship as merely “asking for a little decorum”. And I argue that a number of American Christian groups are pro-censorship, and that their views influence our “somewhat prudish” broadcasting restrictions. Now, if you have a criticism of one of those statements **that I actually said** , feel perfectly free to point it out, and I’ll attempt to defend my position. But I will not argue strawmen with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-is-a-violent-religion/359497.md?page=13)