# Islam, please. I just found out that Muslims believe in Jesus... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862 "2010-12-20T19:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/81 "2010-12-23T18:10:43Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I feel like you are finally catching on to the difference between marketing (“We all believe in the same God”) and fact (“They are totally different Gods”). 😉 > > May I suggest a little more religious scholarship before you post a reply to a factual question about what religious scholarship holds as a core tenet? That’s some first-class condescension there, fella. A pity that your “fact” isn’t a fact at all. It is at best an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/82 "2010-12-23T18:13:19Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > :rolleyes: So, I’m to ignore all the other verses in the Koran where Christians and Jews are said to be the People of the Book, and where the God of Islam is identified as the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus? Believe whatever you want. I’m uninterested in forming your theology or interpreting your scriptures. I just want you to admit that Qur’an says a belief that Jesus was divine is blasphemy, and that therefore the Islamic “belief in Jesus” is a belief in a historic human being, and not the Jesus who in Christian theology is God incarnate. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/83 "2010-12-23T18:18:21Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > A pity that your “fact” isn’t a fact at all. It is at best an opinion. So it’s not fact that the Christian Jesus is considered divine? Or it’s not fact that the Islamic Jesus is considered not divine? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/84 "2010-12-23T18:27:26Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > So it’s not fact that the Christian Jesus is considered divine? > Or it’s not fact that the Islamic Jesus is considered not divine? No, sport - the above is quite correct. What is incorrect is your extrapolation from that, that it is a fact that the God worshiped by Christians and Muslims must therefore be distinct and separate entities. It’s a perfectly supportable _opinion_ ( though a weak one IMO ), but it is not a fact. Another perfectly reasonable opinion is as has been stated - Muslims, Christians and Jews all believe in the same God but two of the three ( or all of them ) have their details mixed up. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/85 "2010-12-23T18:41:33Z")
As a matter of history, the three religions share a common descent, which is recognized in all three religions - for example, in Islam, Jews and Christians are considered “people of the book” - recognized as worshipping the same god (albeit mistakenly). In their own terms, all three tend to recognize their kinship. In terms of their _conception of the nature of god_, Islam is closer to Judaism than Christianity. In both Judaism and Islam, stress is laid on the _singularity_, incorporeal nature, and non-anthropomorphism of the (common) deity. The Trinity and the deification of Jesus is the outlier. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/86 "2010-12-23T18:46:09Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > No, sport - the above is quite correct. > > What is incorrect is your extrapolation from that, that it is a fact that the God worshiped by Christians and Muslims must therefore be distinct and separate entities. It’s a perfectly supportable _opinion_ ( though a weak one IMO ), but it is not a fact. Another perfectly reasonable opinion is as has been stated - Muslims, Christians and Jews all believe in the same God but two of the three ( or all of them ) have their details mixed up. _Exactly_ the point I’ve been trying to get across, **Tamerlane** , thank you. ---
**Author:** ![spenczar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@spenczar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spenczar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/87 "2010-12-23T19:11:48Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Christendom–however you want to define it–came up with the notion that Jesus was God Incarnate as a central tenet for Christianity. That Christian Jesus was Divine. He was part of the Trinity. That’s the “Christian Jesus” that has stood at the center of Christianity since the Nicene creed, at least. To pretend otherwise is highly disingenuous, and to pretend that a belief in some other non-divine iteration of the historical Jesus is a belief in the Jesus of Christianity is wrong because Divinity is not some sort of theological fine point. We are talking about totally different Elvises. One is a human being. One is God. Naming the both “Elvis” doesn’t mean it’s the same belief with simply a minor variation. This is a really bad straw man. Try a three-way comparison: Hinduism: Jesus was just some guy. Islam: Jesus was a divinely inspired prophet. Christianity: Jesus was divine. You are arguing a semantic point that I think puts you in the minority: You argue that the differences in interpretation of Jesus between Islam/Christianity and Hinduism/Christianity are equally significant - that there is no overlap between Islam and Christianity on Jesus. I think most people would agree that the Islam/Christianity difference is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things and that it is pretty reasonable to say that “Muslims believe in Jesus.” They certainly “believe” in him more than Buddhists or Sikhs or atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/88 "2010-12-23T21:02:20Z")
> [@spenczar](#): > > This is a really bad straw man. Try a three-way comparison: > > Hinduism: Jesus was just some guy. > Islam: Jesus was a divinely inspired prophet. > Christianity: Jesus was divine. > > You are arguing a semantic point that I think puts you in the minority: You argue that the differences in interpretation of Jesus between Islam/Christianity and Hinduism/Christianity are equally significant - that there is no overlap between Islam and Christianity on Jesus. > > I think most people would agree that the Islam/Christianity difference is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things and that it is pretty reasonable to say that “Muslims believe in Jesus.” They certainly “believe” in him more than Buddhists or Sikhs or atheists. The first two you list are qualitatively different from the third in such a way that it is totally disingenuous to say that “Muslims believe in Jesus” if you are trying to leave the impression that the Jesus in which Muslims believe is the same Jesus of the predominate Christian faiths (certainly Roman Catholicism, Easter Orthodoxy and pretty much all Protestant branches). In fact, belief in the divine Jesus is sufficient for a Muslim to be branded by Mohammed as a blasphemer (Qur’an 5:17) and proclamation of the divinity of Jesus Christ is sufficient to be branded a non-believer within any Muslim community. On the other hand, proclamation of the divinity of Jesus is a necessary condition to be labeled a “believer” within the broad Christian traditions I mentioned above. Denial of the divinity of Jesus is sufficient to be labeled a “non-believer” in the predominant Christian groups. What all of you are trying to defend is the notion that the various theologies created around the “actual” Jesus have different viewpoints of that historic Jesus. I agree. Perhaps a nice test of your theory that it’s the same Jesus would be to have a Muslim stand in front of his congregation and proclaim that he believes Jesus was divine. If this view is rejected, it becomes pretty obvious that while Muslims may “believe in Jesus” they don’t believe in that Jesus. The quality of divinity is reserved only for God in the Muslim construct, and their Jesus is not God. To proclaim so is blasphemy. It is a qualitative difference distinct from, say, theologic arguments over the specific mechanism of a virgin birth. It’s the central tenet of Christianity that Jesus is divine and that the work of redeeming mankind is a result of this divinity; no other could have effected salvation for mankind. Remove that divinity and you have some other Jesus, who was only a man and through whom salvation could not then be attained. That “Jesus” appears in Islam is a function of Mohammed modifying an existing religion. The modification he made regarding the divinity of Jesus created an entirely different Jesus from the one in Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/89 "2010-12-23T22:16:38Z")
The fact that Muslims beleive in Jesus is about as surprising to me as the fact that Christians believe in Moses. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/90 "2010-12-24T00:46:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The fact that Muslims beleive in Jesus is about as surprising to me as the fact that Christians believe in Moses. The difference is that Jews accept the Christian perception of Moses, and vice versa. It’s the same guy and the same tenets regarding that guy. For a Muslim to proclaim the Christian (divine) Jesus is grounds for being [prosecuted for blasphemy](http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/aalimnetwork/msg00013.html)\* in many Islamic countries even today–including the one I grew up in. Pronouncing that Jesus is God is equivalent to renouncing Islam for all but an extremely tiny minority of Muslims. Islam tends to be fairly particular about who gets divinity and generally does not take kindly to any “attacks” on its positions. Apparently the Mullahs don’t buy this idea you’re just believing in the same Jesus except for a minor theologic twist…given their way, many would opt for administering a good stoning for proclamation of a belief in the Christian Jesus. \*_As for the apostate (murtad - one who blasphemes against God by renouncing Islam) there are 2 possible scenarios - A fitri murtadd is one who is born of Muslim parent(s). It is wajib (incumbent) to kill him if he apostacizes. The milli murtad is a convert who then apostacizes. Ayatullah al-Khu’i states that he should be given a chance to repent of his act. If he does not repent within 3 days, then he should be killed on the 4th. However, one does not need to undertake the act of killing if there is a danger to his own life or property or reputation._ ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/91 "2010-12-24T00:56:31Z")
[For a Muslim’s take on the question of whether or not the Christian Jesus is the Jesus of Islam.](http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_hypocrite.htm) "\*Please be advised that the Jesus of Islam is not the same as the Jesus in the Bible. The purpose of this article is not to bash the Jesus of Islam, but to prove to the polytheist trinitarian pagans that Jesus can not be the Creator of the Universe. Please read the 4th section below… 5- Conclusion: I am not asking you to stop believing in Jesus peace be upon him. Jesus was not a liar. The Bible’s New Testament is the book that is full of lies and man-made corruptions and alterations. Jesus was not a hypocrite. Yes, the Jesus of the Bible is a hypocrite as I clearly showed above. The tough situations Jesus was put through clearly took away his “perfection” and showed that he can not be the Creator of the Universe. But the Jesus of Islam never claimed to be perfect, nor ever claimed to be GOD. So the least I am asking from you, Mr. reader, is that if you’re a Trinitarian Christian, then you should desert this stupidity immediately!! I truly wish and pray that you do embrace Islam; the True Divine Religion of GOD Almighty. But if you can’t, then at least desert this polytheist and pagan practice, so you would at least have some chance to be saved in the End: “Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)” Jesus was no creator, and even your very own corrupted New Testament proves it as I clearly showed above. Jesus’ own actions proved that he was no more than a Creation from GOD Almighty that had physical and psychological limitations and fears. When Jesus was faced with the death challenge, he failed to be perfect. He compromised his own teachings about proper prayers. He also so ridiculously bowed down to GOD Almighty for the FIRST TIME in a hope to further please GOD Almighty during his most desperate times. This is not worship. This is a clear hypocrisy!! Need I also remind you that Jesus did not know when the Hour would come? “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 24:36)” My friend and brother/sister in humanity, desert the stupidity of trinity immediately so you can be saved. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame."\* ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862/92 "2010-12-24T01:49:00Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Pronouncing that Jesus is God is equivalent to renouncing Islam for all but an extremely tiny minority of Muslims. I think this sentence is more telling than you may realize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islam-please-i-just-found-out-that-muslims-believe-in-jesus/564862.md?page=4)