# Islamic State publishes Military Officer's Reidential location and advocates revenge killings. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683 "2015-03-22T14:00:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/41 "2015-03-22T18:16:17Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > On the other hand, this appears to be one more attempt by ISIL (ISIS? I never know) . . . They are now The Performance-Art Collective Formerly Known as IS/ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/42 "2015-03-22T18:16:51Z")
I just went blind. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/43 "2015-03-22T18:16:57Z")
Which, again, is why I asked _forbidden by whom?_ As per this cite – and, really, all of them, so far – the US is simply doing it, while asserting a claim that we can do it, and, again, I ask: who the heck is going to forbid us? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/44 "2015-03-22T18:18:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > In your OP, you said, “ **Aside from the question of “us and them”** how does this differ from ill guided drone attacks in Afghanistan.” > > The issue of “us and them” would seem to mean that the objection to ISIL killing people is because they aren’t American, British, etc. I pointed out they ISIL is routinely conducting shocking and disgusting violations of human rights and the laws of war in an intentional manner. In comparison, Western militaries that injure or kill civilians almost always do so within the laws of war. > > I’m debating your stupid OP. How about an on-topic response? There is an inbuilt tendency in analysing actions of “us” and “them” to use weasel words to excuse actions that we choose, while using damaging words to describe the similar actions of the enemy. It is a case of politically irregular verbs- My targeted assassinations are justified, yours are questionable, theirs are despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/45 "2015-03-22T18:19:54Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The full text from your cite: > > The United States’ assertion of an ever-expanding but ill-defined license to commit targeted killings against individuals around the globe, without accountability, does grave damage to the international legal frameworks designed to protect the right to life. Targeted killing – defined as the intentional, premeditated, and deliberate use of lethal force, by a state or its agents acting under color of law, against a specific individual who is not in the perpetrator’s custody – is permitted only in exceptional circumstances. Targeted killing is usually legal only in armed conflict situations when used against combatants or fighters, or civilians who directly engage in combat-like activities, and international law requires that any state that uses targeted killing must demonstrate that its actions comply with the laws of war. > > [COLOR=“Red”]To comply with its accountability obligations, the United States should disclose when and where it has authorized its forces, including the Central Intelligence Agency, to kill, the criteria for individuals who may be killed, how the U.S. Government ensures killings are legal, and what follow-up there is when civilians are illegally killed. Disclosure of these basic legal determinations is the very essence of accountability, but the United States has so far failed to meet this requirement. Instead, it has claimed a broad and novel theory that there is a ‘law of 9/11’ that enables it to legally use force in the territory of other States as part of its inherent right to self-defence on the basis that it is in an armed conflict with al-Qaeda, the Taliban and undefined ‘associated forces’. This expansive and open-ended interpretation of the right to self-defence threatens to destroy the prohibition on the use of armed force contained in the UN Charter, which is essential to the international rule of law. If other states were to claim the broad-based authority that the United States does, to kill people anywhere, anytime, the result would be chaos. The serious challenges posed by terrorism are undeniable, but the fact that enemies do not play by the rules does not mean that the U.S. Government can unilaterally re-interpret them or cast them aside. The credibility of the U.S. Government’s claim that it has turned the page on previous wrongdoing and seeks to uphold the rule of law in its actions against alleged ‘terrorists’ is called into question by its targeted killing policy.[/COLOR] Setting aside the apparent early arrival of Christmas in your post, let’s recap the positions here: You: targeting killing is historically illegal Me: The ACLU says that targeted killing has to follow certain procedures You: (I’m trying to parse here because you didn’t actually write anything informative) the U.S. isn’t complying with those procedures. So are you backing off your previous position that targeted killing is “historically illegal”? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/46 "2015-03-22T18:20:15Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Please feel free to share it on a thread actually concerning your beliefs. So you’re saying that the only person entitled to an opinion in this thread is you? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/47 "2015-03-22T18:21:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Which, again, is why I asked _forbidden by whom?_ As per this cite – and, really, all of them, so far – the US is simply doing it, while asserting a claim that we can do it, and, again, I ask: who the heck is going to forbid us? That is derived from that great moral principle “might is right.” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/48 "2015-03-22T18:22:41Z")
nit pick “might MAKES right” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/49 "2015-03-22T18:23:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You must’ve somehow forgotten to quote that part! Or this part > [@John Mace](#): > > …but as far as the article goes, this is not the case here. Also, **Pjen** the Voice of Moral Outrage (as far as USers are concerned) foresaw civilians dying in the U.S. > [@Pjen](#): > > What is the appropriate reaction when ISIL explode a bomb under a military family christening or marriage. The point remains that these folk have no compunction about innocents winding up in the line of fire, and we do try to prevent that as much as possible. Conventional airstrikes on targets in Afghanistan would kill and injure far more civilians. And that’s not even taking into account that we are helping a legitimate government fight an evilly motivated insurgency. Now, if the Obama Administration felt it was the target of a rebel assault by the Tea Party in which certain military personnel were involved in the rebel campaign\*, the remaining military could not be trusted, and it was necessary to invite ISIS in to perform targeted strikes on the rebel military officers, then we’d have more equivalency with the situation in Afghanistan. \*hey, it could happen. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/50 "2015-03-22T18:24:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So you’re saying that the only person entitled to an opinion in this thread is you? No. I am saying if people want to discuss the relative merits of Democracy versus Islamic barbarity then it should be in an appropriate thread, and would be decided very quickly. This thread is about the general morality of targeted assassinations. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/51 "2015-03-22T18:25:30Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > nit pick > > “might MAKES right” Nit pick Pedantry is boring. > **[MIGHT IS RIGHT - Definition & Meaning - Reverso English Dictionary](https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/might+is+right)** > > Might is right definition: the idea that those with power are justified. Check meanings, examples, usage tips, pronunciation, domains, related words. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/52 "2015-03-22T18:25:34Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > That is derived from that great moral principle “might is right.” That’s not how this works. _You_ stated that it’s forbidden, as derived from – I don’t know, the moral principle that “might is wrong,” or some such. I’m merely noting that your laughable claim – that it’s forbidden – is the one in need of a cite; and that the cites you’ve provided thus far indicate that, _no, of course it’s not actually forbidden._ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/53 "2015-03-22T18:25:36Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > This thread is about the general morality of targeted assassinations. If it’s about morality, then why are you discussing legality? They’re not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/54 "2015-03-22T18:26:50Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > What is the appropriate reaction when ISIL explode a bomb under a military family christening or marriage. Obviously, we should admit that we do the same thing, and that this is what we deserve. What are your thoughts on the matter? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/55 "2015-03-22T18:32:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obviously, we should admit that we do the same thing, and that this is what we deserve. > > What are your thoughts on the matter? My thoughts are that there is incredible cognitive dissonance and fractured attributions when broadly similar acts committed by us and them are considered without careful thought. I believe that an attack on a senior US military officer’s home by IS is equivalent to one on a terrorists home by the US. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/56 "2015-03-22T18:33:36Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > There is an inbuilt tendency in analysing actions of “us” and “them” to use weasel words to excuse actions that we choose, while using damaging words to describe the similar actions of the enemy. > > It is a case of politically irregular verbs- > > My targeted assassinations are justified, yours are questionable, theirs are despicable. But I’m not making an “us vs them” argument. You’re just hearing what you want to hear. How many times has ISIL made compensation to the families of civilians who were wrongly killed? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/57 "2015-03-22T18:34:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If it’s about morality, then why are you discussing legality? They’re not the same thing. Morality and legality often overlap and inform each other. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/58 "2015-03-22T18:35:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But I’m not making an “us vs them” argument. You’re just hearing what you want to hear. > > How many times has ISIL made compensation to the families of civilians who were wrongly killed? That would make an interesting question for General Questions. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/59 "2015-03-22T18:40:52Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I believe that an attack on a senior US military officer’s home by IS is equivalent to one on a terrorists home by the US. Morally or legally? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683/60 "2015-03-22T18:42:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Morally or legally? Both. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/islamic-state-publishes-military-officers-reidential-location-and-advocates-revenge-killings/715683.md?page=4)