# Isn't everything a chemical? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198 "2014-09-01T22:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/81 "2014-09-03T21:00:22Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > Oh come on, why does he need a cite? I know I’v heard that before, though not often, because it sounds kind of stupid. Usually it’s the “names you can’t pronounce” thing. I remember ice cream commercials with kids trying to read the weird ingredients and being unable to pronounce them > > in general, we’re all used to the anti-chemical dogma that’s out there > [@Mangetout](#): > > Honestly, I don’t recall seeing that argument. I’m not kidding. > > As far as I’m aware, the chief mischaracterisation of ‘chemicals’ is that they are to be feared because they are ‘unnatural’, not that they have complex names. It’s really just shorthand. Chemicals with complicated sounding names are more likely to be additives that would not be found in a home-cooked version of the item. Saying “chemicals” itself is shorthand. Saying that you don’t want foods with chemicals in it is really just saying you don’t want foods that are so highly processed that they need complex chemical engineering to keep them palatable. Highly processed foods, and the additives in them, don’t exist to make food better, they exist to make food cheaper. They make food palatable when it’s made of cheap ingredients. Don’t want to use expensive cream in your Ice Cream? Use something cheaper and replicate the mouthfeel with carageenan and Polysorbate 80. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/82 "2014-09-03T21:06:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Honestly, it’s been completely off my radar, but the point was (this thread notwithstanding), is the length/complexity of the chemical names something that people commonly ask about on this topic _here on the SDMB_? Who said it was? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/83 "2014-09-03T21:31:24Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Who said it was? Since post #18, I have been talking about _the way the SDMB reponds/should respond_ to the topic. That was also the context of my request for citation in post #78 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/84 "2014-09-03T21:35:46Z")
Could you give me an example of a time when a poster asked the dope a question about chemicals and the responses all consisted of “LOL, water”? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/85 "2014-09-03T22:05:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “Everything is a chemical” is a completely true statement. There is no sense in which it isn’t true, aside from nitpicks like light and gravity. There are some people who _think_ that there is another meaning of “chemical”, and that this other meaning provides an important distinction, but those people are wrong, and there’s no reason we shouldn’t point out that they’re wrong. [(6aR,9R)-N,N-diethyl-7-methyl-4,6,6a,7,8,9-hexahydroindolo-[4,3-fg]quinoline-9-carboxamide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide) Any questions? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/86 "2014-09-03T22:11:07Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Could you give me an example of a time when a poster asked the dope a question about chemicals and the responses all consisted of “LOL, water”? I can’t cite supporting that claim, because I never claimed that. I don’t believe I claimed that _all_ of the responses to any such question were the DHMO meme, only that it happens, and that I think it isn’t helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/87 "2014-09-03T23:56:50Z")
Right from the OP of this very thread: > [@](#): > > Or on a call-in talk show about chemical pesticides they had a guest who was a “scientist from the university”. Someone called in asking how they were supposed to know what was safe for your lawn. The scientist’s response was basically, the longer the word, the more afraid you should be. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/88 "2014-09-04T07:10:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Right from the OP of this very thread: Already acknowledged. Yes I did notice that we are talking about the thing we are talking about, here in the thread we are talking about it. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Honestly, it’s been completely off my radar, but the point was (this thread notwithstanding), is the length/complexity of the chemical names something that people commonly ask about on this topic _here on the SDMB_? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/89 "2014-09-04T09:40:18Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > …In this ever changing world in which we live in, … Live and let Die–I laughed at this the moment I heard it, and continue to use it. A kindred spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/90 "2014-09-04T09:46:43Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > IMy problem with this is this - isn’t everything made up of stuff from the periodic table (including elements not yet discovered)? Everything is an expression of physics, not chemistry. You need to add photons, neutrinos, etc to atoms. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/91 "2014-09-04T15:38:42Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > In this ever changing world in which we live in… At one time I thought the song said that too, but then I figured it must be “in which we’re living.” Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/92 "2014-09-04T17:13:57Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > At one time I thought the song said that too, but then I figured it must be “in which we’re living.” Which is it? Even McCartney says he’s not sure, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/93 "2014-09-04T20:28:10Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I’ve heard various people saying things like “I don’t like chemicals in this or that” and things of that nature. A while ago I heard about some news feature about the superiority of butter over margarine, the gist of it being “Margarine consists of [bunch of complicated-sounding chemicals] while butter is just cream. Butter is obviously better.” Or on a call-in talk show about chemical pesticides they had a guest who was a “scientist from the university”. Someone called in asking how they were supposed to know what was safe for your lawn. The scientist’s response was basically, the longer the word, the more afraid you should be. > > My problem with this is this - isn’t everything made up of stuff from the periodic table (including elements not yet discovered)? Theoretically, could you not break down cream until you have a bunch of atoms, or could you not be able to name cream by its chemical composition? And for the so-called scientist - what about deoxyribonucleic acid? That’s a rather long word. > > Or am I out to lunch on this? Seriously, what kind of talk shows do you listen to that introduce a subject matter expert as simply a “scientist from the university”? Did they really not give any more information about his credentials than that? I generally try to avoid so-called processed foods when I can. I’m not afraid of them; I don’t know for a fact that they’re harmful, but I’ve never seen a concise explanation of why they’re safe. What I do know is that in other countries where they habitually eat fresh fruit and vegetables, people don’t ride around in scooters because they’re too obese to walk. “The longer the word, the more afraid you should be” is stupid advice to be sure. On the other hand, I don’t see any compelling reason to buy bread with HCFS, azodicarbonamide, etc. I can make it at home with 4 or 5 ingredients, same with ice cream. Am I missing out on anything or harming anyone? Given that this is a relatively new development on the human timeline, is it really so stupid to think that the jury might still be out? ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/94 "2014-09-04T21:30:09Z")
This summer I taught English as a foreign language in the UK. I taught around 50 Italian teen students for a fortnight, three groups over six weeks. They were aged from 13-17 and were, mostly, from southern Italy. Some were from Milan, Pisa and Roma but most were from the south. So, over the six weeks, I and my colleagues taught around 2000 Italian teenagers who were mostly from agricultural, non-industrial areas and brought up on a Mediterranean diet. The girls said they learned cooking from their mothers and grandmothers, the boys liked hair gel. Not one of them were overweight. Not a single one, out of the 2000 or so, were fat. I’ve taught in China and Korea where you’d get one or two in a class who has weight problems, but none we could say (and we spoke about that in detail) could be described as overweight. A few girls were ‘buxom’, although we avoided the subject, and a few were underweight. None were UK/US fat. In the Middle East and the UK - places I visit a lot - I see many people seriously overweight. I also see, in the UK, ill people going into McDonalds and Burger King. I go in for a coffee (when it’s the only option) around 10 or 11am and I see sick people waddling in for their fix. I despair for their health. I worked in McD’s when at college and only survived for four days on a Maccy D’s diet - I felt like I’d been poisoned and couldn’t eat any more. I also had some bathroom problems after four days on that diet. I hadn’t before, or have since, felt as ill as when I ate there for three meals a day, for four days. The food is poison. I have a coffee and a burger there, once a year at most, only when there isn’t anywhere else available. It’s shit. Or worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/95 "2014-09-04T23:29:35Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > This summer I taught English as a foreign language in the UK. I taught around 50 Italian teen students for a fortnight, three groups over six weeks. They were aged from 13-17 and were, mostly, from southern Italy. Some were from Milan, Pisa and Roma but most were from the south. So, over the six weeks, I and my colleagues taught around 2000 Italian teenagers who were mostly from agricultural, non-industrial areas and brought up on a Mediterranean diet. The girls said they learned cooking from their mothers and grandmothers, the boys liked hair gel. > > Not one of them were overweight. Not a single one, out of the 2000 or so, were fat. I’ve taught in China and Korea where you’d get one or two in a class who has weight problems, but none we could say (and we spoke about that in detail) could be described as overweight. A few girls were ‘buxom’, although we avoided the subject, and a few were underweight. None were UK/US fat. In the Middle East and the UK - places I visit a lot - I see many people seriously overweight. I also see, in the UK, ill people going into McDonalds and Burger King. I go in for a coffee (when it’s the only option) around 10 or 11am and I see sick people waddling in for their fix. I despair for their health. I worked in McD’s when at college and only survived for four days on a Maccy D’s diet - I felt like I’d been poisoned and couldn’t eat any more. I also had some bathroom problems after four days on that diet. I hadn’t before, or have since, felt as ill as when I ate there for three meals a day, for four days. The food is poison. I have a coffee and a burger there, once a year at most, only when there isn’t anywhere else available. It’s shit. Or worse than that. How does that relate to the OP? ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/96 "2014-09-05T19:38:24Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > How does that relate to the OP? I’m not really sure what the OP was ultimately driving at, but it seemed like a dig at people who don’t eat processed food by lumping them in with some fool who is terrified of long, chemical-y words. I think **JustinC** was trying to say that even though produce and McDonald’s are both chemicals in a literal sense, it’s very likely, if not completely evident, that they have differing effects on the human body. So if someone opts to buy carrots instead of a package containing ammonium sulfate, even if it’s because they don’t know what ammonium sulfate is, maybe it’s not such a terrible thing. And what is to be gained by asserting this semantic point that everything is technically a chemical? ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/97 "2014-09-07T03:57:24Z")
> [@](#): > > they exist to make food cheaper. No, most chemicals used in food make the foods more shelf-stable. They preserve the food and the quality of the food. There are also a lot of “stabilizers” that effect the… lets lump it all into “viscosity” of the food, if you will, like the carageenan you mentioned. From what I understand, such ingredients are NOT a substitute for good cream as you said, that isn’t a thing. Let’s also take into account that freqiently the “chemical” brands people find much tastier in blind taste tests, when they don’t know which brand they’re eating. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/98 "2014-09-07T04:10:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I also had some bathroom problems after four days on that diet. Oh, no shit, sherlock? who knew eating only fast food would make you shit like a race-horse? That’s why you don’t eat it regular. Speaking of which, do that many people eat it that regular? Why do the self-righteous d-bags who try to shove their non-science nonsense always act like there’s huge underclass of people who eat McDonald’s every single day for lunch and dinner. And you better believe that a huge underclass of minorities and working class peope is how they envision it, because these sel-righteous types are extremely insular and deep down racist though they don’t want to admit it. Most of the time people have a deli close to them at work rather than a fast-food joint, at least in the populated areas (NYC/LA/Chicago, etc). > [@](#): > > Not a single one, out of the 2000 or so, were fat. I’ve taught in China and Korea where you’d get one or two in a class who has weight problems, but none we could say (and we spoke about that in detail) could be described as overweight. There’s this thing called “genetics”. Also epigenetics; entire populations can change their gene expressions based on what happened to their ancestors and the local environment/weather. > [@](#): > > The food is poison. Oh jeez, come one. Melodram. It’s just food. It’s just there when you don’t have the time and would prefer not to spend the money > [@](#): > > I also see, in the UK, ill people going into McDonalds and Burger King. I go in for a coffee (when it’s the only option) around 10 or 11am and I see sick people waddling in for their fix. I literally don’t unserstand what the hell you’re saying here. > [@](#): > > I despair for their health. Oh how nice of you. Yes, you’re a good samaritan, really, not a stuck up, holier than though doosh who wants to dictate what other people eat. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/99 "2014-09-07T04:16:59Z")
> [@](#): > > but I’ve never seen a concise explanation of why they’re safe. I gave a quick one above. Most of the additives are synthetic versions of things found in nature, or are in some class of compounds that already exists in nature and we know can be broken down by the body. Aspartame, for example, isn’t technically “natural”, but it might as well be. It would surprise me if it HASN’T been proposed that they engineer/breed yeast or some microbe to make it so as to make manufacturing it cheaper because you could then grow it in fermentation vats. Aspartame is two amino acids linked, and ester-connected to a methanol molecule. Your body already has the biochemical machinery to break amino acids apart, and to break ester bonds apart, and your body is quite capable of handling the resulting amino acids and methanol ---
**Author:** ![Crazier\_Catlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Crazier\_Catlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazier_Catlady)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198/100 "2014-09-07T08:12:36Z")
Does that mean that enough aspartame can make you drunk? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-everything-a-chemical/697198.md?page=6)