# Isn't It Time to Quit Hunting World War II Nazis? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909 "2014-07-24T06:03:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/21 "2014-07-24T19:02:04Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Are they all dead? That’s when it will be time to quit hunting them. And “all” you mean…? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/22 "2014-07-24T19:05:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And “all” you mean…? Nazi war criminals. Obviously, we can’t know for certain whether someone is an actual war criminal until they are tried, but as long as the possiblity exists that some war criminals are still alive, it is worth pursuing them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/23 "2014-07-24T19:08:22Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Nazi war criminals. Obviously, we can’t know for certain whether someone is an actual war criminal until they are tried, but as long as the possiblity exists that some war criminals are still alive, it is worth pursuing them. Circular reasoning. Do we just keep hunting down people until everyone has been determined to be not guilty? At what specific point does this hunt stop? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/24 "2014-07-24T19:10:05Z")
Yes it’s time to quit hunting feeble 90 year old men that may not even remember what they did in WWII. Every case usually involves a complicated and expensive court battle to get them extradited. We’ve had two cases recently where the poor guy died during the court battle. One died just a few days ago hours before the verdict from the court. I understand the desire to go after war criminals. They’ve been chasing down Nazis for almost 70 years. It’s time to let the past alone. All the witnesses to these crimes are long dead or senile anyway. The defendant is probably half senile and doesn’t even fully understand WTH is going on or why he’s being arrested. I just don’t see any justice in this. There’s too big a chance that we are persecuting innocent old men and making their last days on earth a living hell. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/25 "2014-07-24T19:18:52Z")
Did they leave the old Jews alone? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/26 "2014-07-24T19:20:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Circular reasoning. Do we just keep hunting down people until everyone has been determined to be not guilty? At what specific point does this hunt stop? When either a) There is no one left alive that we suspect is a Nazi war criminal or b) Enough time has passed that we can be reasonably certain that anyone involved in the atrocities is dead. They’re Nazis; they’re not immortal. I don’t accept the idea that there is an age at which you get a free pass for atrocities you committed in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/27 "2014-07-24T19:20:21Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Obviously, we can’t know for certain whether someone is an actual war criminal until they are tried, but as long as the possiblity exists that some war criminals are still alive, it is worth pursuing them. This is a much more extreme approach than law enforcement usually takes, though. For most crimes, even heinous and horrific ones, you don’t get investigators and prosecutors six or seven decades later declaring that _“as long as the possibility exists that we can find the perpetrator, it is worth pursuing the investigation with a view to bringing them to justice”._ Rather, they start by figuring out whether they have a reasonable chance of plausibly identifying the perp and of making a case against him/her that is likely to secure a conviction. I don’t see why these sensible considerations should be set aside just because NAZIS. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/28 "2014-07-24T19:21:09Z")
No way. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. They gave up the search for Mengele, I believe, thinking he was dead, and he wasn’t. Fuck that shit. What went on during the Holocaust was one of the most evil events in human history. No way they should be allowed to get away with it, just because they’re old and feeble. They already GOT their time of freedom – now it’s time to pay the piper. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/29 "2014-07-24T19:27:37Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > I don’t accept the idea that there is an age at which you get a free pass for atrocities you committed in the past. I concur, but the “quit Nazi hunting” advocates are not maintaining that Nazis are so old that they should get a free pass for atrocities they committed in the past. They’re saying that **suspected** Nazis are so old that they should be excused from the rigors of the criminal-justice processes required to determine whether they **did** commit the atrocities that they are **suspected** of having committed in the past. Especially if by this time even the most rigorous criminal-justice investigation is unlikely to determine conclusively whether they **actually** committed said atrocities in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/30 "2014-07-24T19:35:34Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > "German efforts to prosecute aging war criminals suffered a setback this week with the death of a retired Philadelphia toolmaker who had long been in the crosshairs of Nazi hunters. > > Bavarian prosecutors had hoped to extradite 89-year-old Johann “Hans” Breyer over his alleged service as a Waffen SS guard at Auschwitz in 1944." > > [http://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/Suspected-Nazi-guard-s-death-a-blow-to-prosecutors-5642876.php](http://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/Suspected-Nazi-guard-s-death-a-blow-to-prosecutors-5642876.php) > > 70 Years Ago? I just think that with all the crime and violence in the world that there are much higher priorities. Why would you want to stop them? Are they expending your tax dollars? And even if they were, isn’t chasing down murderers (let alone war criminals) one of the better uses of tax dollars? FFS, we spend billions enforcing laws against marijuana. Priorities indeed. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/31 "2014-07-24T19:36:26Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Could more have been done sooner? Of course. Has the tally dropped dramatically since the 1980s? Also of course. But to say “nothing was done” is way off base. > . OK. “Nothing” is exagerated. But still : most people holding significant and well known responsabilities under the nazi regime enjoyed a pleasant and respectable life until they died some decades ago. Going now after nonagerians who were 18 at the time and at the lowest of the totem pole, assuming they were indeed guilty of anything, which is going to be difficult to prove anyway after 70 years, doesn’t scream of justice to me. Justice could have been served. It deliberatly wasn’t when it was possible (but inconvenient). Those trials are a mockery. Had they tried to sentence every single concentration camp guards from the get-go, every single man involved in the nazi machinery, that could make sense (even though I think that statutes of limitation exist for a reason…70 years is way too late to hold a trial, IMO), but that’s not at all what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/32 "2014-07-24T19:48:19Z")
As long as we follow the normal court procedures of liberal democratic countries, then sure. No “We know you’re a Nazi, so we have a special court whereby we can use special methods to prove you’re a Nazi, since Nazi scum like you don’t deserve a fair trial like decent folk do.” Other than that, fine. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/33 "2014-07-24T19:48:56Z")
How many other elderly Germans are currently being targeted as potential war criminals? I can’t imagine it’s that large of a group. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/34 "2014-07-24T19:53:06Z")
An 18 year old in 1945 will be 87 today. And 18 year olds do not make policy, do not implement policy, do pretty much bugger all. It was for this reason when actual prosecutions were made, people like that were not punished or even targeted. Now look, if there is actual evidence that the person was involved in actual crimes, like say killing, raping or torturing prisoners, directly or to an extent that would make them an accomplice for every day crime, then by all mean, try them,. Not the way the Germans are doing it, which is saying "you know, we have no clue what you actually did, but because you were present there, you are [guilty" like they did with Demjanjuk.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk#Criticism). Justice is not served by fucking long established legal principles in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/35 "2014-07-24T19:59:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How many other elderly Germans are currently being targeted as potential war criminals? I can’t imagine it’s that large of a group. I don’t know. Is there a single vetted list that everyone is working off of, or are there a bunch of small independent groups, each with their own set of qualifications as to who gets to be called a “Nazi War Criminal”? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/36 "2014-07-25T00:15:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > An 18 year old in 1945 will be 87 today. And 18 year olds do not make policy, do not implement policy, do pretty much bugger all. It was for this reason when actual prosecutions were made, people like that were not punished or even targeted. I believe the “I was just following orders” defense was rejected at Nuremberg. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/37 "2014-07-25T00:24:05Z")
There’s also the double standard for the Japanese War Criminals. Very few were ever prosecuted. Not just for what they did to our POW’s. But also the chemical and biological experiments they did in [Unit 731.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731) I agree prosecutions should have been more vigorously pursued right after the war. Far too many Nazi and Japanese war criminals literally got away with murder. But 70 years later that ship has sailed. Arresting and putting such old men through extradition hearings and a criminal trial is just inhumane. Especially since they could easily be innocent. Johann “Hans” Breyer died before trial and will never get a chance to face his accusers in court and possibly clear his name. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/38 "2014-07-25T00:45:55Z")
I really see only two reasons to imprison people: - To keep dangerous people away from the rest of society - To discourage others from engaging in the same behavior Neither one is served by locking up someone that committed a crime 70 years ago and has lived in peace since, so I don’t see the point. On the contrary–a fair amount of anguish in the world would go away if more people could forget crimes committed in the distant past, no matter how horrific. After all, every German shared _some_ responsibility for the atrocities against the Jews and others–would anyone have been better off if we punished every German citizen alive during WW2 until the day they died? I don’t think so. Anyone with a vengeance-based notion of justice I consider to have a really screwed up moral system. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/39 "2014-07-25T00:58:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Yes it’s time to quit hunting feeble 90 year old men that may not even remember what they did in WWII. “They might not even remember having worked at an extermination camp where 1.1 million human beings were murdered” doesn’t cut it as a defense. > [@aceplace57](#): > > There’s also the double standard for the Japanese War Criminals. Very few were ever prosecuted. Not just for what they did to our POW’s. But also the chemical and biological experiments they did in [Unit 731.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731) You’ve got this entirely backwards. Ishii and his unit was very much the exception in avoiding prosecution, which they got in exchange for providing their research in biological warfare. There was no double standard for Japanese war criminals; if anything they were much more heavily prosecuted than Germans for war crimes in the years immediately after WWII. In addition to the [International Military Tribunal for the Far East](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribunal_for_the_Far_East) there were thousands of [other trials](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Other_trials): > [@](#): > > Between 1946 and 1951, the United States, the United Kingdom, China, the Soviet Union, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, France, the Netherlands and the Philippines all held military tribunals to try Japanese indicted for Class B and Class C war crimes. **Some 5,600 Japanese personnel were prosecuted in more than 2,200 trials outside Japan.** Class B defendants were accused of having committed such crimes themselves; class C defendants, mostly senior officers, were accused of planning, ordering or failing to prevent them. > > The judges presiding came from the United States, China, the United Kingdom, Australia, the Netherlands, France, the Soviet Union, New Zealand, India and the Philippines. Additionally, the Chinese Communists also held a number of trials for Japanese personnel. **More than 4,400 Japanese personnel were convicted and about 1,000 were sentenced to death.** > > The largest single trial was that of 93 Japanese personnel charged with the summary execution of more than 300 Allied POWs, in the Laha massacre (1942). The most prominent ethnic Korean convicted was Lieutenant General Hong Sa Ik, who orchestrated the organisation of prisoner of war camps in Southeast Asia. In 2006, the South Korean government “pardoned” 83 of the 148 convicted Korean war criminals.[20] One hundred-sixty Taiwanese who had served in the forces of the Empire of Japan were convicted of war crimes and 11 were executed. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909/40 "2014-07-25T01:41:11Z")
Eh. As noted hunting folks accused ( with some sort of evidence ) of committing actual crimes doesn’t bother me, whether they were menials or not. But as noted above, they’ll soon all be dead\*. I’d say finally calling it a day in ~3-13 years\* when all those 18 year old from 1945 would be ~90-100 is a reasonable enough idea. But I can’t imagine the resources being expended are large enough to worry about it all that much. - Excluding all those in South America that have had their brains transplanted into robots/giant apes/clones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-time-to-quit-hunting-world-war-ii-nazis/693909.md?page=3)