# Isn't it, well, irrational to feel troubled by people speaking foreign languages in your country? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260 "2016-06-24T19:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/41 "2016-06-26T20:46:33Z")
Pretty much any emotion is “irrational”. That doesn’t mean the emotion is “bad” or unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![moojja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@moojja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moojja)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/42 "2016-06-26T22:29:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think that’s a highly unlikely possibility and therefore an irrational fear. But even if it happened, how does it justify telling people they have to speak English? Shouldn’t we instead be telling the English speaking minority that they should be speaking Spanish (or whatever the new majority language is)? That’s the argument the English speaking majority is making now; non-English speaking minorities should use the majority language. That same argument should hold if Spanish became the majority language. Yes I agree with you absolutely, if Spanish becomes that common, that is what will happen. That is why the currently English majority speakers are so afraid. It’s hard to learn a new language, the older you are, the harder it is to learn. In some parts of the USA, Spanish is the majority language spoken. I hold no value judgement on that, except it is inconvenient for me personally. But it is pointless to try to legislate or to control language usage in anyways. People will use whatever language that is the most convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/43 "2016-06-27T00:19:14Z")
> [@moojja](#): > > It’s hard to learn a new language, the older you are, the harder it is to learn. I agree. And it’s one objection I have to people who suggest people should have to speak English. It would force people to learn English, which is as difficult to learn as an adult as any other language is. (More difficult than many, in fact. English has a larger vocabulary than most languages; it has bizarre spelling and pronunciations; and it has a more complicated system of tenses and aspects than most languages have.) But English is not going to disappear. It’s the predominant language in the United States and it’s a major international language. So there are considerable advantages to speaking and/or reading English. Children growing up will choose to learn English because of those advantages and to avoid the disadvantages of not knowing English. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/44 "2016-06-27T01:25:16Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > It’s creepy when people speak a foreign language. They act like they’re talking, but they’re not using real words; they’re just saying “bar bar bar bar.” > > It’s bad enough when people speak with an accent. Talk _normal_, dammit! Yeah, they sound like a bunch of barbarians. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/45 "2016-06-27T01:37:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree. And it’s one objection I have to people who suggest people should have to speak English. It would force people to learn English, which is as difficult to learn as an adult as any other language is. (More difficult than many, in fact. English has a larger vocabulary than most languages; it has bizarre spelling and pronunciations; and it has a more complicated system of tenses and aspects than most languages have.) > > But English is not going to disappear. It’s the predominant language in the United States and it’s a major international language. So there are considerable advantages to speaking and/or reading English. Children growing up will choose to learn English because of those advantages and to avoid the disadvantages of not knowing English. In what way is English pronunciation “bizarre”? Do you think the language has an unusual number of phonemes? If so, what are you comparing it to? Bear in mind I’m not talking about English SPELLING, which is certainly not phonemic. Just the pronunciation. I agree that its unreasonable to expect all adult immigrants to become fluent in English . Hisotry has shown that it only takes a generation for that to change, so long as the parents make the attempt to assimulate. If they were to keep insular, not to expose their children to both English and the foreign tongue, the kids won’t learn either. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/46 "2016-06-27T04:00:55Z")
When California and Texas were part of Mexico, would Spanish-speakers have been irrational to worry about all those people speaking English? In Hawaii in the 1800s, would a native Hawaiian have been irrational to worry about all those people speaking English? In southern Africa in the 1700s and 1800s, would Bantus and Zulus have been irrational to worry about all those people speaking English and Dutch? In southern Europe in the first millennium, would Romans have been irrational to worry about all those people speaking Frankish and Vandalic and Lombardic? When immigrants assimilate, it is usually good for a country. When immigrants don’t assimilate, it is often bad for a country. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/47 "2016-06-27T06:33:38Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > As for 2016 in America, **as long as everyone knows and can speak English** , I don’t really care what language they use. This is the problem–and the fear. _Does_ everyone know English? And will they and their children continue to use English? It is a legitimate concern for natives in their own country. As **debbiecf9** said above: “I shouldn’t be forced out of a job because I don’t know Chinese when I live in America” > [@](#): > > When immigrants assimilate, it is usually good for a country. When immigrants don’t assimilate, it is often bad for a country. And this is the essential issue. It’s not racism to be concerned about your own country and its culture. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/48 "2016-06-27T07:47:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Define irrational. > > If you like your country and culture the way it is, then the increasing presence of foreign-language speakers is a legitimate sign that the landscape is changing in a way you oppose. That would depend a lot on what your country is like. Mine has multiple multilingual areas, neighbors who hop over for a day trip and who speak other languages (we hop over for day trips in their countries too), and tourism as a big source of income. Finding foreigners irritating in a country like that would be extremely counterproductive! But for someone who grew up seeing foreigners only on TV, encountering a live one can range from surprising to shocking. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/49 "2016-06-27T07:57:43Z")
The only time I’ve ever had a problem with it was when I was with some Iranian people I knew, then another Iranian came up to us and started speaking with them in Farsi (and I know this person spoke English). But that was more because I thought it was slightly rude to speak a non-common language in a mixed group, not that they were daring to speak Farsi in the US. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/50 "2016-06-27T17:07:23Z")
In my days as a college prof, I routinely was around people who spoke other languages. I even remember a time when a student from Japan and a student from Korea were trying to figure something out by writing stuff down in Chinese logograms since they both knew many of those. Sure, I’ve been at a table when several others were speaking Hebrew or something. So what? English speakers at a table in Europe/Asia/etc. might speak English there. Same diff. Instead, I found it fascinating when someone speaking another language drops English technical terms into the conversation. And it appears that “okay” is now universal. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/51 "2016-06-27T17:09:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In what way is English pronunciation “bizarre”? Do you think the language has an unusual number of phonemes? If so, what are you comparing it to? > > Bear in mind I’m not talking about English SPELLING, which is certainly not phonemic. Just the pronunciation. > > I agree that its unreasonable to expect all adult immigrants to become fluent in English . Hisotry has shown that it only takes a generation for that to change, so long as the parents make the attempt to assimulate. If they were to keep insular, not to expose their children to both English and the foreign tongue, the kids won’t learn either. When someone talks about how something is pronounced, they pretty much are always talking about spelling. I’ve never tried to learn another language without it being taught both in written and spoken form. Are there language speaking courses that don’t use some sort of writing system? Plus, well, is it really all that useful to be functionally illiterate in a second language? Sure, if you’re just going to be saying a few phrases, it seems okay. But if you actually want to speak on any level, don’t you want to be literate? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260/52 "2016-06-27T19:16:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Plus, well, is it really all that useful to be functionally illiterate in a second language? Sure, if you’re just going to be saying a few phrases, it seems okay. But if you actually want to speak on any level, don’t you want to be literate? I can imagine someone wanting to become reasonably fluent in speaking Chinese or Japanese without becoming functionally literate, because with those languages you need to learn 2,000 to 3,000 characters to become literate. That’s different from a language with an alphabet of 20 to 50 characters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-it-well-irrational-to-feel-troubled-by-people-speaking-foreign-languages-in-your-country/758260.md?page=2)