# Isn't throwing my garbage out the window BETTER for the environment??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 16, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853 "2003-03-16T22:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Dark\_Canuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@The\_Dark\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Dark_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/1 "2003-03-16T22:18:15Z")
I had the pleasure of driving by a city dump the other day and looking at the mounds of garbage got me thinking (as garbage often does): with such a huge amount of garbage piled together, wouldn’t it take quite a while for garbage in the middle of the pile to decompose. If you threw a single piece of garbage on the ground, wouldn’t it break down quicker due to greater exposure to the weather, surrounding environment, etc??? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/2 "2003-03-16T22:28:38Z")
No. Bacteria do most of the work breaking down garbage. They work best where it’s dark wet and warm, such as in a compost pile. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/3 "2003-03-16T22:37:28Z")
It depends on the material; an apple core would probably be gone by the next day (not through decomposition though, of course), a washing machine wouldn’t. BTW, **dtilque** ; landfills are so large and compressed as to be pretty much anaerobic AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Yumanite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@Yumanite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumanite)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/4 "2003-03-16T22:37:47Z")
I would think it depends on what the garbage is made of. Organic materials should decompose nicely if you put them in a big pile – that is rather the point of compost heaps. As far as plastics go, from [this](http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/recycling/solidwaste/plastics.html) site: > [@](#): > > Biodegradable plastics are made with five percent cornstarch or vegetable oil. The idea is that hungry bacteria will devour the starch or oil in the plastic, causing the plastic to disintegrate into a fine dust. That is the idea, but does it really work? > No, say both environmentalists and plastics manufacturers. Nothing degrades quickly in a modern landfill, not even organic wastes like paper and food scraps, so there is no reason to think that the corn starch in biodegradable plastics will disappear overnight either. Modern landfills are designed to inhibit degradation, not promote it. The idea is to keep wastes in, so landfill contaminants do not seep into the surrounding environment. In addition, biodegradable plastics cannot be recycled because the starch or oil additive compromises the quality of recycled plastics. > > Photodegradable plastics are a different matter. They use no organic additives. They are made with a special type of plastic that breaks down and becomes brittle in the presence of sunlight. Of course, that means photodegradable plastics do not break down when they are covered by leaves or snow, or when they are buried in a landfill. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/5 "2003-03-16T22:39:30Z")
…backing up a bit, does the term _garbage_ mean specifically organic (in the non-chemist definition) waste? (as distinct from ‘trash’?) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dark\_Canuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@The\_Dark\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Dark_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/6 "2003-03-16T22:44:54Z")
Let’s exclude food wastes. I’m talking about a paper bag, a candy bar wrapper, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/7 "2003-03-16T22:51:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*…backing up a bit, does the term _garbage_ mean specifically organic (in the non-chemist definition) waste? (as distinct from ‘trash’?) \*\* It used to, but in general (American) usage, it has recently come to mean anything we wish to dispose of. The distinction seems to have begun fading away when cities and towns stopped having separate trash and garbage pickups. You’d probably be hard pressed to find a Gen X’er who is even aware there ever was a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/8 "2003-03-16T23:03:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Dark Canuck \* > \*\*Let’s exclude food wastes. I’m talking about a paper bag, a candy bar wrapper, etc. \*\* In that case, technically, yes. **Mangetout** ’s point about modern landfills being anaerobic is correct. That’s why they now commonly cap them off, landscape over them, and turn them into parks, when they’re full. There is little danger that the hills will subside into a pile of goo, because no noticeable decomposition is taking place. Whereas, if you toss your paper bag out the window, it will eventually decompose. Of course, in the meantime, it will look like hell. And, that candy wrapper is plastic. I don’t believe they’re using degradeable plastics for those, yet. So, it’s permanent, no matter where you put it. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/9 "2003-03-16T23:09:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Dark Canuck \* > \*\*Let’s exclude food wastes. I’m talking about a paper bag, a candy bar wrapper, etc. \*\* In that case, technically, yes. **Mangetout** ’s point about modern landfills being anaerobic is correct. That’s why they now commonly cap them off, landscape over them, and turn them into parks, when they’re full. There is little danger that the hills will subside into a pile of goo, because no noticeable decomposition is taking place. Whereas, if you toss your paper bag out the window, it will eventually decompose. Of course, in the meantime, it will look like hell. And, that candy wrapper is plastic. I don’t believe they’re using degradeable plastics for those, yet. So, it’s permanent, no matter where you put it. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/10 "2003-03-16T23:43:40Z")
The _garbage_ garbage term you are looking for **Mangetout** is putrescible waste. As opposed to _trash_ like paper etc. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/11 "2003-03-17T00:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t believe they’re using degradeable plastics for those, yet. So, it’s permanent, no matter where you put it. I don’t think plastic exposed to the Sun is permanent. The UV breaks down the bonds in the plastic. I have a glass-top patio table with a hole in the center for an umbrella, and it came with a plastic ring to line the hole. That turned yellow, and brittle, and broke, in about a year. I think the real environmental impact of all the trash and garbage is in its creation, more than its disposal. Recycling, reusing, and never creating in the first place are better than either way of disposal. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/12 "2003-03-17T00:40:28Z")
I suppose the argument could be made that landfills sequester carbon, wheras throwing garbage out the window puts it back into the environment. Not sure how significant this would be, however. ---
**Author:** ![Rabid\_Squirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Rabid\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabid_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/13 "2003-03-17T01:05:47Z")
My memory is extremely hazy, but from a National Geography journal sometime in the 80’s, they did an ‘excavation’ on the NYC dump and found newspapers that was still readable and whole heads of lettuce out of it. In theory, I suppose the best way would be to chuck everything into a composter and hope for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/14 "2003-03-17T01:57:22Z")
> [@](#): > > You’d probably be hard pressed to find a Gen X’er who is even aware there ever was a difference. I sure didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/15 "2003-03-17T02:10:13Z")
Don’t tell me that tossing trash out of the window is better for the environment than disposing of it properly. Next you’ll be trying to tell me that Iron Eyes Cody wasn’t really an Indian! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/16 "2003-03-17T02:14:26Z")
You could imagine that if few enough people existed, then the waste they produce could be composted. The waste would turn into dirt quickly enough to keep disease, vermin, etc. from being a problem. There are so many of us creating waste now that we must do something else. I liken it to the sewage treatement plant: If you are a small group of people, your toilet pit or what-have-you will not be large enough to create an environmental problem. Since our population centers are large, we must “hurry up” nature’s process via the sewage treatement plant. I hope nobody’s reading this at breakfast ! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/17 "2003-03-17T05:22:23Z")
There’s an interesting book about this subject: [Rubbish: The Archaelogy of Garbage](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0816521433/qid=1047878524/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-0358258-2605563), by William Rathje and Cullen Murphy. The book is ten years old now (my, time does fly!), but it’s still very current. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/18 "2003-03-17T14:24:44Z")
To sum up (as Inigo said): There is usually some decomposition going on in landfills, but not much, and what decompostion does go on is usually anaerobic, which means the end product is methane not carbon dioxide. Better for the environment? Well, generally the problems with landfills leaking is not biodegradeable stuff, but heavy metals and other nasty things. And while indeed they are to some degree limiting global warming by keeping carbon locked away, the methane produced by the limited decompostion is much worse than carbon dioxide, so they’re probably not much of a net gain if any. There is benefit in reducing the volume of trash – you don’t need to build a new landfill as soon, burn less gasoline hauling it around, and so forth, so that’s probably the best reason for not landfilling stuff. Probably the best solution environmentally is to put as much as possible into a composting facility and use the result as fertilizer instead of a petrochemical-based fertilizer. That would be a big net environmental gain. Of course, just tossing garbage isn’t quite as beneficial. Aside from esthetic problems, there could be health problems as well. ---
**Author:** ![Yumanite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@Yumanite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumanite)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/19 "2003-03-17T18:32:50Z")
You can also incinerate trash – not without environmental drawbacks, as everyone knows, but the benefits may outweigh the costs in some circumstances. (By the way, **Quercus** , I like your name. One of my favorite tree types.) ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853/20 "2003-03-17T19:45:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ZenBeam \* > \*\*I don’t think plastic exposed to the Sun is permanent. The UV breaks down the bonds in the plastic. I have a glass-top patio table with a hole in the center for an umbrella, and it came with a plastic ring to line the hole. That turned yellow, and brittle, and broke, in about a year. \*\* A) There are many, many different types of plastic. Some ARE susceptible to UV. Some aren’t. B) Candy wrappers are often mylar, which isn’t UV susceptible. C) Even susceptible types don’t BIOdegrade, which is the key. They may break down into little particles, but they never reenter the ecosystem. There are some mutant bacterial strains that can devour plastics, in the lab, but we don’t want those getting loose and wreaking havoc on our “plastic fantastic” lifestyles. Even then, I don’t believe the byproducts of this decomposition is usable by any other organism. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isnt-throwing-my-garbage-out-the-window-better-for-the-environment/161853.md?page=2)