# ISO-9000 Questions
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 3, 2001, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546 "2001-09-03T17:43:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@buddy1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy1)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2001, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/1 "2001-09-03T17:43:58Z")
Well, it has been almost a decade since ISO-9000 quality systems have come into vogue.I personally have worked on my firm’s (successful) ISO-9001 certification. I have also noticed that some consumer-oriented organizations have gotten certified (Charles River SAAB, a local car dealer)has achieved ISO-9001 certification. It is estimated that fiems in the USA, Japan, and Europe have invested tens of billions of dollars in these efforts. So, are products any better for all this? I for haven’t noticed any great differences-was ISO-9000 a waste?
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/2 "2001-09-03T18:14:25Z")
Offhand, I’d say that’s kind of like asking “we spent all of this money on insurance, and our house never burned down–did all that money go to waste?” AFAIK, ISO and other quality certification programs are aimed at assuring a company’s business partners that it won’t screw up.
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### Author:  [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2001, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/3 "2001-09-03T19:11:56Z")
ISO certification in no way assures screw-ups don’t happen. While it hopefully lessons them, in real life it just documents them more than anything.
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### Author:  [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/4 "2001-09-03T19:19:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by buddy1 \*
> **So, are products any better for all this?**
Well, I would guess the products inside the ISO auditors homes are better. These [Dilbert cartoons](http://www.franken.de/users/bike/lan/dil_Iso9000.html) kinda explain a lot.
Seriously, it’s a admirable ideal, but how well it transfers from theory to practice is debatable.
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### Author:  [@GENE\_STONER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GENE_STONER)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2001, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/5 "2001-09-03T19:47:36Z")
I work as a Heavy Mobile Equipment Repairer for the Marine Corps. Basically, I work on tanks, Hummers, and other military equipment.
The Marine Corps are requiring all depot maintainance workers to be ISO certified. In fact, my facility just reached 100% percent ISO compliance a few months ago.
In my opinion, it was a waste of time, since we already had Quality Control inspectors looking at the product after every step of the process.
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### Author:  [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/6 "2001-09-04T01:59:30Z")
This should really be in **IMHO**.
We’ve been ISO-registered for 2 years. In my opinion, and for the most part, it is a waste of time and money. Furthermore, customers are _not_ requesting that we be “ISO-registered,” which makes me wonder why we are.
ISO is a big lie… it is sold as a “quality system,” yet it is anything but. You can make a total piece of crap and be ISO-registered, because ISO has nothing to do with product quality. It would be more accurate to call it a “documentation system.” With ISO, the mantra is **document, document, document**. This approach is very short-sighted, IMO.
But that’s not the worst of it. ISO has become a virtual **religion** in some quality circles. If you work at an ISO-registered company, and say _anything_ bad about ISO, you will likely be branded as “not one of us.” Where I work, you can complain about a lot of things and get away with it, but everyone knows not to utter anything even _slightly_ negative about ISO, as doing so will buy you a ticket out the door. It’s really disgusting.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2001, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/7 "2001-09-04T02:09:00Z")
Ok, let me say something nice about ISO 9001, although I don’t necessarily disagree with the things that have been said. HOWEVER…
ISO enforces discipline in the company. Every time we get near our ISO audit, we have to go back and fix all the little things we ‘dropped the ball’ on. Procedures that have been violated, promises made (like intranet tools) that were never followed up on, etc. It keeps us honest. And in my experience, companies that go downhill generally do so because of a general, long term degradation in procedures and systems. Everything just starts becoming ad hoc and arbitrary. And eventually, that comes back and bites you or your customers on the ass. The ISO standard at least forces you to keep evaluating what you are doing and what you haven’t done that you thought you would. That kind of introspection is healthy.
But if you treat ISO as just a rubber stamp, you can make it pretty useless. Because as other’s have said, ISO says nothing about how good your procedures are - just how well you follow them. So I think a lot of people looking for ‘easy certification’ may just ‘hide’ their processes and do minimal documentation. I’ve seen that before - “let’s do it this way, but don’t write that in the system manual because then the ISO police will hound us about it forever. So just do it and shut up.” And that’s detrimental.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2001, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iso-9000-questions/79546/8 "2001-09-04T03:27:16Z")
Having pushed my last company through the ISO9000 registration audit and two subsequent surveillance audits, I ave to agree with the last post, and little of the one prior to that. At its best, ISO will keep you on your best behavor about keeping track of what you’re doing, and of being responsive to customer comments AND internal criticsms. At its worst, it will bury you in unwanted and un-needed paperwork.
Crafter\_Man is absolutely right that ISO will not guarantee that your product will be any good. But, properly applied, it will force you to rspond to criticisms about your product that should keep you pointed in the right direction. It won;t help if you’re clueless, or if you let it degenerate into make-work and busywork. I always tried to keep the tide of paperwork from rising, and in hading off the pointless before it got too far, but it’s a never-ending struggle. Thank God ddn’ see those Dilbert cartoons until 'd oved on to another company – ISO is hard enough to take seriously without that.
BTW, my current company is ISO certified, too. As you say, lots of companies insist on it, and it looks very impressive on you letterhead and business card. For some companies, being Certified can make or break a deal.