# Isolated shit, courtesy your neighbourly right wing scumbag **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900 "2022-06-26T17:22:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/161 "2023-02-08T22:28:01Z")
Been there, done that, fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/162 "2023-02-08T22:34:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What would be an example of similar right-wing violence in the past two years? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Pick any interval you want. If you want to go back farther, fine. We can talk about the George Floyd riots, the ‘Autonomous zones’ set up in Portland and elsewhere complete with plenty of violence. We can talk about the firebombing of a police station full of people and a courthouse, and the storming of a state capitol. Well, two years and a month ago there was the storming of the U.S. Capitol. That’s why I thought your “two years” time frame was rather disingenuous. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But hey, you’ll always have J6. The gift that keeps on giving. Oh, so you have heard of it. If you want to go back to the '60s and the Weather Underground, how about we go back to the '90s and the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > To be fair, there HAS been a rise in right-wing violence, and it’s deplorable. But the left is plenty violent. You brought up the events in Atlanta and asked for similar examples of right-wing violence. Now you’re admitting there has been a rise in right-wing violence, so why did you ask for examples? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/163 "2023-02-08T22:53:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What would be an example of similar right-wing violence in the past two years? Why not [ask the people who study such violence,](https://www.lawfareblog.com/evolution-critical-infrastructure-targeting-violent-extremists) along with similar violence from Muslim-extremist jihadi groups? > [@](#): > > As the domestic threat landscape has evolved over the past six years, homegrown violent extremists (HVEs) and domestic violent extremists (DVEs) are [inextricably involved](https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/terrorist-attacks-targeting-critical-infrastructure-united-states-1970-2015) in the threat against U.S. critical infrastructure. A 2021 intelligence assessment by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence [assessed](https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/UnclassSummaryofDVEAssessment-17MAR21.pdf) racially and ethnically motivated violent extremists as the most [lethal](https://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/federal-bureau-of-investigation-budget-request-for-fiscal-year-2023) of DVE movements, while [Salafi-jihadist](https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs2191/f/Women-in-American-Violent-Extremism_Daymon-and-Margolin_June-2022.pdf) actors were the most lethal of HVE movements during the period of the study. Therefore, our report elected to investigate this pair of extremist movements targeting critical infrastructure. […] The report concluded that while Salafi-jihadist violent extremist actors more frequently plotted against U.S. critical infrastructure compared to their white supremacist violent extremist counterparts, white supremacist attack plots have increased significantly since 2019. […] > > White supremacist actors aim to conduct multiple acts of terror over a longer period of time to incite civil unrest and dismantle the functioning of the government and, as such, view critical infrastructure attacks as vital steps in [destabilizing societal functioning.](https://icct.nl/app/uploads/2021/07/siege-culture-neo-nazi-terrorist-doctrine.pdf) […] > > Such attacks against critical infrastructure, including the energy sector, have even increased in frequency between 2020 and 2022 and mirror the [rise in visibility](https://ctc.westpoint.edu/uniting-for-total-collapse-the-january-6-boost-to-accelerationism/) of white supremacist actors adhering to [accelerationist doctrines](https://www.accresearch.org/shortanalysis/an-introduction-to-militant-accelerationism). […] > > […] over the past six years, 87 percent of recorded white supremacist attacks on critical infrastructure targeted energy infrastructure. As recently as February, the Department of Justice [charged three individuals](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-men-plead-guilty-conspiring-provide-material-support-plot-attack-power-grids-united) with conspiring to provide material support to terrorists for plotting to attack multiple electrical substations with power rifles to trigger mass unrest through power outages, all in the hope of bringing about an eventual race war. They also distributed white supremacist propaganda, federal agency reports on the energy grid, and lists of energy infrastructure throughout the U.S. to fellow white supremacists. In other words, Gyrate’s post that you attempted and failed to refute, which acknowledged that violent left-wingers do exist but that “right-wing violence is far, far more prevalent”, is entirely in line with the views of actual experts on ideological violence. Antifa may be the biggest scariest monster of them all in your right-wing media bubble, but that’s not how it looks out in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/164 "2023-02-08T23:12:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You have been informed over and over and fucking _over_ again about the lies about what “antifa” was involved in, so I will just file this as yet another case of you being deliberately ignorant, absolving other posters from repeating what you have already been told. > Fuck you, troll. I’ve long thought that, but never said it. \< Somewhere a bartender just rang a bell and 1 free shot of bourbon is ‘on the house’. \> ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/165 "2023-02-08T23:55:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Why not [ask the people who study such violence,](https://www.lawfareblog.com/evolution-critical-infrastructure-targeting-violent-extremists) along with similar violence from Muslim-extremist jihadi groups? First of all, Lawfareblog is a left-wing group. If I tried to provide a cite on this board from an equivalent right-wing group, it wouldn’t be accepted. Hell, I jus5 got dismissed because I cited the Washington Examiner, even though the facts in it, such as the charges of domestic terrorism are all true. Nevertheless, I looked at your cite - which didn’t list a single attack carried out by a right wing group, and didn’t address left-wing violence at all. However, it helpfully DID provide a cite to the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism to actual data: > **[START\_DHS\_GTD\_Targeting%20Critical%20Infrastructure%20in%20the%20US\_June2016.pdf](https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_DHS_GTD_Targeting%20Critical%20Infrastructure%20in%20the%20US_June2016.pdf)** > > 394.64 KB Here’s what they said of the period from 1970 to 2015l: > [@](#): > > For nearly one‐fifth (19%) of the terrorist attacks on commercial facilities in the United States between 1970 and 2015 no information about the perpetrator(s) was reported in source materials. Among the remaining cases, more than 70 perpetrator organizations and generic designations (e.g., “Cuban Exiles”) were identified, as well as unaffiliated individual perpetrators. **The two organizations responsible for the most attacks were the Earth Liberation Front (11%) and the Animal Liberation Front (9%), which were primarily active in the 1990s and 2000s. Two Puerto Rican independence groups active in the 1970s— Fuerzas Armadas de Liberacion Nacional (FALN) and the Armed Revolutionary Independence Movement (MIRA)—followed, with 8 percent and 7 percent, respectively.** The remaining attacks were carried out by groups and organizations representing a variety of ideological influences, including left‐wing extremists, right‐wing extremists, black nationalists, white supremacists, Jewish extremists, environmentalists, and anti‐Castro Cuban extremists. So the top four groups for commercial terrorism were all left-wing, and alone made up 35% of all attacks on commercial buildings. 19% weren’t identified. Of the remaining 46%, some were right-wing, some left-wing, and some that don’t qualify as either. How about government attacks? This is where I would expect the right to focus, and indeed we have the Oklahoma City bombing as an example. And yet… > [@](#): > > **The most common perpetrator designation identified is “left‐wing militants,” who were responsible for 14% of the attacks on government facilities** , all of which took place in the early 1970s. The second most common perpetrator designation is “Unaffiliated individual(s)” (11%) which refers to assailants who were not known to be associated with a formal organization but were acting in pursuit of one or more ideological goals. This category includes both the 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City and the 2015 assault in San Bernardino. The most prolific formal organization responsible for terrorist attacks on government facilities in the United States was the Jewish Defense League (JDL). The JDL was active in the 1970s and 1980s, and carried out 6 percent of all attacks against government targets. I actually don’t know much about the JDL. Are they left wing, right wing, or neither? In healthcare we get to the anti-abortion terrorists, and finally have more right-wing terrorists than left. 88% of these attacks were anti-abortion protesters. However, even here there were attacks from the left wing Animal Liberation Front, one by ‘revolutionary leftists’ and one by Students for a Democratic Society. But yes, abortion is still the domain of right wing types. Butnthen we get to the financial sector, and it flips again. Groups responsibke for attacks, in order: FALN: 32 Left-wing militants: 28 Aryan Republican Army: 16 Black Liberation Army: 12 United Freedom Front’ 11 Weather Underground 10 Machetereos: 9 May 9 Communist Order: 8 Chicano Liberation Front: 8 Independent Armed Revolutionary Commandos: 5 George Jackson Brigade: 5 Of the 144 attacks with known perpetrators, 16 came from a right-wing group, and all the rest came from the left. Pretty mich all attacks on the military sector came from the left, mostly duringmthe Vietnam war. The emergency services sector has also come under terrorist attack: > [@](#): > > Although there is often overlap in ideological classifications, the perpetrators of attacks targeting the emergency services sector include groups and organizations primarily motivated by extreme left‐wing ideology (74%), extreme right‐wing ideology (3%), nationalist/separatist ideology (14%), and single‐ issues (2%), The energy sector: > [@](#): > > Among the attacks for which perpetrators were identified, more than one‐third (34%) were attributed to the New World Liberation Front (NWLF). The NWLF was an extreme left‐wing organization that carried out more than 20 bombings targeting the energy sector between 1970 and 1978, primarily aimed at electrical infrastructure belonging to PG&E in California. The remaining attacks were carried out by more than 30 different groups or organizations representing a variety of ideological motivations: extreme left‐ wing, extreme right‐wing, environmentalism, Puerto Rican nationalism, and the anti‐Castro movement. Nearly all of the perpetrator groups identified were responsible for one or two attacks against the energy sector rather than a prolonged pattern like that of the NWLF. The last two categories, transportation and food/agriculture, appear to be dominated by the Earth Liberation Fron and the Anupimal Liberation Front. > [@](#): > > Arson attacks on food and agriculture targets were typically carried out by animal rights and environmentalist groups, including ALF, ELF, and a group that called itself the Farm Animal Revenge Militia (FARM). > Approximately one‐third of attacks on food and agriculture involved explosive devices. These attacks took place in the 1970s and 1980s, with the exception of three attacks that took place in the 1990s. The perpetrator groups that most frequently used explosive devices were the extreme left‐wing NWLF, the Puerto Rican nationalist group FALN, and white supremacists including members of Aryan Nation. > Three attacks (6%) targeted food and agriculture using firearms. These include two robberies that were carried out by the Black Liberation Army and the May 19 Communist Order, and an additional attack carried out by the Puerto Rican nationalist group called Armed Forces of Popular Resistance (FARP). Going up to 2015, where this report ends, it’s clear that the overwhelming number of terrorist attacks were carried out by left-wing groups. Only abortion terrorism is predominantly right-wing. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/166 "2023-02-09T00:56:49Z")
We can go back and forth on sources and stats, so here is what I found - I don’t know if the Center for Strategic and International Studies is left- or right- leaning, but their data is up to 2020, so includes TFG’s presidency: > **[The Escalating Terrorism Problem in the United States](https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states)** > > The United States faces a growing terrorism problem that will likely worsen in the next year, particularly around the 2020 presidential election. The most significant threat likely comes from white supremacists, though anarchists and religious... _This section analyzes the data in two parts: terrorist incidents and fatalities. The data show three notable trends. First, right-wing attacks and plots accounted for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994. In particular, they made up a large percentage of incidents in the 1990s and 2010s. Second, the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown substantially during the past six years. In 2019, for example, right-wing extremists perpetrated nearly two-thirds of the terrorist attacks and plots in the United States, and they committed over 90 percent of the attacks and plots between January 1 and May 8, 2020. Third, although religious extremists were responsible for the most fatalities because of the 9/11 attacks, right-wing perpetrators were responsible for more than half of all annual fatalities in 14 of the 21 years during which fatal attacks occurred._ Right-wing identified as White supremacists, Anti-government Extremists, and Incels. Left-wing identified as Anarchists, environment and animal rights groups, and Antifa. [![](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg) ](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg) [![](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg) ](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg) _Our data suggest that right-wing extremists pose the most significant terrorism threat to the United States, based on annual terrorist events and fatalities. Over the next year, the threat of terrorism in the United States will likely increase based on several factors, such as the November 2020 presidential election and the response to the Covid-19 crisis. These factors are not the cause of terrorism, but they are events and developments likely to fuel anger and be co-opted by a small minority of extremists as a pretext for violence._ _First, the November 2020 presidential election will likely be a significant source of anger and polarization that increases the possibility of terrorism. Some—though not all—far-right extremists associate themselves with President Trump and may resort to violence before or after the election. As U.S. Department of Justice documents have highlighted, some far-right extremists have referred to themselves as “Trumpenkriegers”—or “fighters for Trump.”50 If President Trump loses the election, some extremists may use violence because they believe—however incorrectly—that there was fraud or that the election of Democratic candidate Joe Biden will undermine their extremist objectives._ So, no one is claiming there is no left-wing violence going on, but I think it’s pretty clear that of late, the majority of violence and terror happening within the US is right-wing caused. I guess its not really “Isolated shit” any more, and is becoming more of the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/167 "2023-02-09T01:01:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If I tried to provide a cite on this board from an equivalent right-wing group, it wouldn’t be accepted. That’s because right wing groups, in general, are more full of egregious bull-shit than left wing groups. This should kinda go without saying. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Hell, I jus5 got dismissed because I cited the Washington Examiner, even though the facts in it, such as the charges of domestic terrorism are all true. Obviously it was dismissed because it did not clearly detail that the perps were of any leftist political persuasion. Wearing black, and being from out of state, does not, _in the least,_ establish ‘beyond the shadow of a doubt’ that they’re “antifa”. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/168 "2023-02-09T04:45:36Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > We can go back and forth on sources and stats, so here is what I found - **I don’t know if the Center for Strategic and International Studies is left- or right- leaning** … Clearly they are left-leaning since their stats are in opposition to what @Sam_Stone believes. It’s really always that simple. (my bolding to the last part of the quoted section) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/169 "2023-02-09T04:47:33Z")
Doesn’t that also make them Antifa? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/170 "2023-02-09T04:48:27Z")
Super-Antifa more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/171 "2023-02-09T10:05:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > First of all, Lawfareblog is a left-wing group. If I tried to provide a cite on this board from an equivalent right-wing group, it wouldn’t be accepted Well, here’s what the left-wing Trump administration thought back in 2020: > **[DHS draft document: White supremacists are greatest terror threat](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236)** > > The documents are slightly different drafts of the same annual threat assessment, which is not yet published. And [here’s a Congressional report from 2019](https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml): > [@](#): > > Congress finds the following: > > (1) White supremacists and other far-right-wing extremists are the most significant domestic terrorism threat facing the United States. > > (2) On February 22, 2019, a Trump Administration United States Department of Justice official wrote in a New York Times op-ed that “white supremacy and far-right extremism are among the greatest domestic-security threats facing the United States. Regrettably, over the past 25 years, law enforcement, at both the Federal and State levels, has been slow to respond. … Killings committed by individuals and groups associated with far-right extremist groups have risen significantly.”. > > (3) An April 2017 Government Accountability Office report on the significant, lethal threat posed by domestic violent extremists explained that “[s]ince September 12, 2001, the number of fatalities caused by domestic violent extremists has ranged from 1 to 49 in a given year.” The report noted: “[F]atalities resulting from attacks by far right wing violent extremists have exceeded those caused by radical Islamist violent extremists in 10 of the 15 years, and were the same in 3 of the years since September 12, 2001. Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent).”. > > (4) An unclassified May 2017 joint intelligence bulletin from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Department of Homeland Security found that “white supremacist extremism poses [a] persistent threat of lethal violence,” and that White supremacists “were responsible for 49 homicides in 26 attacks from 2000 to 2016 … more than any other domestic extremist movement”. > > (5) Fatal terrorist attacks by far-right-wing extremists include— > > (A) the August 5, 2012, mass shooting at a Sikh gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 6 members of the gurdwara; > > (B) the April 13, 2014, mass shooting at a Jewish community center and a Jewish assisted living facility in Overland Park, Kansas, in which a neo-Nazi shot and killed 3 civilians, including a 14-year-old teenager; > > (C) the June 8, 2014, ambush in Las Vegas, Nevada, in which 2 supporters of the far-right-wing “patriot” movement shot and killed 2 police officers and a civilian; > > (D) the June 17, 2015, mass shooting at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 9 members of the church; > > (E) the November 27, 2015, mass shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, in which an anti-abortion extremist shot and killed a police officer and 2 civilians; > > (F) the March 20, 2017, murder of an African-American man in New York City, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly traveled to New York “for the purpose of killing black men”; > > (G) the May 26, 2017, attack in Portland, Oregon, in which a White supremacist allegedly murdered 2 men and injured a third after the men defended 2 young women whom the individual had targeted with anti-Muslim hate speech; > > (H) the August 12, 2017, attack in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which a White supremacist killed one and injured nineteen after driving his car through a crowd of individuals protesting a neo-Nazi rally, and of which former Attorney General Jeff Sessions said, “It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute.”; > > (I) the July 2018 murder of an African-American woman from Kansas City, Missouri, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly bragged about being a member of the Ku Klux Klan; > > (J) the October 24, 2018, shooting in Jeffersontown, Kentucky, in which a White man allegedly murdered 2 African Americans at a grocery store after first attempting to enter a church with a predominantly African-American congregation during a service; and > > (K) the October 27, 2018, mass shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in which a White nationalist allegedly shot and killed 11 members of the congregation. > > (6) In November 2018, the Federal Bureau of Investigation released its annual hate crime incident report, which found that in 2017, hate crimes increased by approximately 17 percent, including a 23-percent increase in religion-based hate crimes, an 18-percent increase in race-based crimes, and a 5-percent increase in crimes directed against LGBT individuals. The total number of reported hate crimes rose for the third consecutive year. The previous year’s report found that in 2016, hate crimes increased by almost 5 percent, including a 19-percent rise in hate crimes against American Muslims; additionally, of the hate crimes motivated by religious bias in 2016, 53 percent were anti-Semitic. Similarly, the report analyzing 2015 data found that hate crimes increased by 6 percent that year. Much of the 2015 increase came from a 66-percent rise in attacks on American Muslims and a 9-percent rise in attacks on American Jews. In all three reports, race-based crimes were most numerous, and those crimes most often targeted African Americans. > > (7) On March 15, 2019, a White nationalist was arrested and charged with murder after allegedly killing 50 Muslim worshippers and injuring more than 40 in a massacre at the Al Noor Mosque and Linwood Mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand. The alleged shooter posted a hate-filled, xenophobic manifesto that detailed his White nationalist ideology before the massacre. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern labeled the massacre a terrorist attack. > > (8) In January 2017, a right-wing extremist who had expressed anti-Muslim views was charged with murder for allegedly killing 6 people and injuring 19 in a shooting rampage at a mosque in Quebec City, Canada. It was the first-ever mass shooting at a mosque in North America, and Prime Minister Trudeau labeled it a terrorist attack. > > (9) On February 15, 2019, Federal authorities arrested U.S. Coast Guard Lieutenant Christopher Paul Hasson, who was allegedly planning to kill a number of prominent journalists, professors, judges, and “leftists in general”. In court filings, prosecutors described Lieutenant Hasson as a “domestic terrorist” who in an email “identified himself as a White Nationalist for over 30 years and advocated for ‘focused violence’ in order to establish a white homeland.”. And [a more recent Senate report from last year](https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/imo/media/doc/221116_HSGACMajorityReport_DomesticTerrorism&SocialMedia.pdf): > [@](#): > > Over the past two decades, acts of domestic terrorism have dramatically increased. > National security agencies now identify domestic terrorism as the most persistent and lethal > terrorist threat to the homeland. This increase in domestic terror attacks has been predominantly > perpetrated by white supremacist and anti-government extremist individuals and groups. Here’s the left-wing Washington Post, but they bring the actual data: > **[The rise of domestic extremism in America](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-terrorism-data/)** > > Data shows a surge in homegrown incidents not seen in a quarter-century. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Here’s what they said of the period from 1970 to 2015l: I note you didn’t bold the bit that said “all of which took place in the early 1970s”. The 1970s and 1980s were a peak period for left-wing terrorism, absolutely. It began to dwindle and right-wing terrorism surpassed it as a threat in the 1990s during the Clinton administration. RW terrorism receded somewhat during the Bush years and then surged again through the Obama and Trump administrations. In the 20 years following 9/11, right-wing extremists killed more Americans in domestic attacks than Muslim extremists did, and committed more than twice as many attacks as left-wing extremists. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > the storming of a state capitol. What - this one? > **[Unmasked Protesters Push Past Police Into Idaho Lawmakers' Session](https://www.npr.org/2020/08/25/905785548/unmasked-protesters-push-past-police-into-idaho-lawmakers-session)** > > Anger at the state response to the pandemic spurred dozens of people, some of whom were armed, to barge into and pack the House of Representatives' gallery on Monday. Admittedly that one remained largely peaceful because unlike the BLM protests the police didn’t pre-emptively violently attack the protesters and there weren’t vigilante groups from the opposing political standpoint also actively committing violence and destruction at the urging of their elected representatives. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/172 "2023-02-10T00:16:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Here’s what they said of the period from 1970 to 2015l: Gyrate and others have already pointed out this absolutely pathetic resort to timeframe cherrypicking so you could include the 1970s in your data set. It’s generally accepted, and certainly nobody here was denying, that the 1970s were indeed a time of spiking ideological violence in the American left and its extremist organizations. For you to attempt to imply that that somehow refutes Gyrate’s original claim back in post #148 that “at the moment, right-wing violence is far, far more prevalent” (emphasis added) is ridiculous. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I actually don’t know much about the JDL. Are they left wing, right wing, or neither? Very convenient that you suddenly forget how to look up basic information about well-known organizations when it might undermine your carefully selected results. The very first line in [the Wikipedia article on the JDL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League) states “The **Jewish Defense League** ( **JDL** ) is a [Jewish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish) [far-right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics) religious-political organization in the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and [Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) […]”. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/173 "2023-02-10T00:51:41Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Gyrate and others have already pointed out this absolutely pathetic resort to timeframe cherrypicking so you could include the 1970s in your data set. It was YOUR cite that included those statistics. I didn’t cherry pick a thing - I used the entire dataset. I was being morevthan fair, because that dataset stopped before the rise of Antifa, the George Floyd riots, the Chaz/Chop zone in Portland, the firebombings of police stations, police cars and a courthouse by the left, leading right up to the current situation which saw five leftists charged with dimestic terrorism. I even acknowledged that right-wing violence is on the rise. What I reject is the idea that the maior risk in America today is right-wing terrorism, and that it outnumbers left-wing terrorism. You can only get there by rejecting the actions of left-wing extremists in the past three years as being violent or terroristic. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/174 "2023-02-10T01:05:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It was YOUR cite that included those statistics. But the part that I quoted from that cite was the part about attacks in the last few years. You know, the data actually relevant to a discussion of ideology-based violence at the moment. You, on the other hand, went trawling the same site for a carefully selected additional five decades or so, in order to be able to include the left-wing violence surge of about half a century ago. In other words, a completely irrelevant deflection away from the actual point. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I didn’t cherry pick a thing - I used the entire dataset. Yeah, just like the climate-change deniers who claim that the present-day warming is NBD because “it’s been far warmer in the past”. With “the past” conveniently broadened to include periods tens and hundreds of millions of years ago, which are likewise fundamentally irrelevant to discussion of the particular circumstances of global warming now. Yes, Sam, arbitrarily stretching the horizontal axis far into the past, so you can conveniently “counterbalance” the datasets currently under discussion with much earlier unrelated ones, is in fact a form of cherrypicking. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/175 "2023-02-10T01:08:16Z")
Here’s Disco Sam laying down the science: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/e6LOWKVq5sQ/hqdefault.jpg "Disco Stu - If these trends continue...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LOWKVq5sQ) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/176 "2023-02-10T01:14:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What I reject is the idea that the maior risk in America today is right-wing terrorism, and that it outnumbers left-wing terrorism. As has been pointed out to you already, the Department of Homeland Security—and AFAICT every other organization that is actually professionally involved in understanding and combating domestic terror threats, rather than pulling half-digested right-wing media propaganda out of their asses—disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/177 "2023-02-10T01:30:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What I reject is the idea that the maior risk in America today is right-wing terrorism, and that it outnumbers left-wing terrorism. Since you’ve either missed, or completely ignored, this information posted above, it bears repeating: > Since 2019, DHS and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) have repeatedly > identified domestic terrorism, in particular white supremacist violence, as the most persistent and > lethal terrorist threat to the homeland, including in multiple threat alerts provided to Congress and law enforcement agencies across the country. Living in this bubble you’ve created won’t ever change the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/178 "2023-02-10T01:48:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > What I reject is the idea that the maior risk in America today is right-wing terrorism, and that it outnumbers left-wing terrorism. > > As has been pointed out to you already, the Department of Homeland Security—and AFAICT every other organization that is actually professionally involved in understanding and combating domestic terror threats, rather than pulling half-digested right-wing media propaganda out of their asses—disagree with you. I think what friend Sam _meant_ to say was “What I reject is the **actual factual analysis that clearly states** that the maior risk in America today is right-wing terrorism, and that it outnumbers left-wing terrorism.” Or he might have meant: “I reject is the idea that the maior risk in America **in the 1970’s** was right-wing terrorism, and that it outnumbered left-wing terrorism.” Hard to tell if it’s a brain tumour or trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/179 "2023-02-10T03:56:39Z")
I mean, to be totally fair, it may be technically valid to claim that left-wing terrorism “outnumbers” right-wing terrorism even nowadays if we are counting, e.g., all instances of property destruction identified as “ecoterrorism” and so forth. If we count as an act of terrorism every incident where, say, a radical environmentalist bashes a hole in a pipeline or an anarchist smashes a police-station window, I would consider it quite plausible (though I haven’t seen actual numbers) if it turned out that more such acts are carried out by left-wingers than by right-wingers. However, that still wouldn’t invalidate the intelligence community’s findings that right-wing terrorism is a far more major risk in America today than left-wing terrorism. While I don’t condone left-wingers bashing holes in pipelines or smashing police-station windows, I think it would be delusional to consider them comparable, in terms of the risk they pose to society, to right-wing gunmen massacring people in synagogues or mosques or inner-city supermarkets. (Much less Proud Boys and their ilk organizing an actual insurrection attempt to overturn a Presidential election.) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900/180 "2023-02-10T10:47:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It was YOUR cite that included those statistics. I didn’t cherry pick a thing - I used the entire dataset. I was being morevthan fair, because that dataset stopped before the rise of Antifa, the George Floyd riots, the Chaz/Chop zone in Portland, the firebombings of police stations, police cars and a courthouse by the left, leading right up to the current situation which saw five leftists charged with dimestic terrorism. I even acknowledged that right-wing violence is on the rise. What I reject is the idea that the maior risk in America today is right-wing terrorism, and that it outnumbers left-wing terrorism. You can only get there by rejecting the actions of left-wing extremists in the past three years as being violent or terroristic. And apart from your general rejecting of actual data, you can only make the argument you did if you attribute every bit of violence and destruction during the BLM protests to the left and deliberately ignore the considerable amount of violence and destruction by right-wing groups and the police themselves. As indeed the right-wing media have deliberately been doing to mislead their viewers for years. > [@Kimstu](#): > > I mean, to be totally fair, it may be technically valid to claim that left-wing terrorism “outnumbers” right-wing terrorism even nowadays if we are counting, e.g., all instances of property destruction identified as “ecoterrorism” and so forth. For the datasets I’ve seen those are already counted as left-wing violence - “ecoterrorism” and the “animal liberation” types have been the main leftist terrorist fringe for decades. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/isolated-shit-courtesy-your-neighbourly-right-wing-scumbag/966900.md?page=10)