# Israel 60 years: A very improper celebration indeed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 8, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622 "2008-05-08T23:04:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/161 "2008-05-12T20:57:28Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] americans have a mindset that they still live in the 1950s. Nationalistic pygmies with a duel personality, so fucking high moral in public, but at the same time have their own homes filled with perverse porn. [/quote] This is just wishful thinking, isn’t it? Some day, you hope to come visit from C. Europe and partake of the houses full of perverse porn you hope to find. Well, no porn for you, buddy. You’ll have to just pleasure yourself to goat-based fantasies as usual. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/162 "2008-05-12T21:02:54Z")
I’ll have you know my house is _not_ filled with porn. That’s what my external hard drive is for. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/163 "2008-05-12T21:29:14Z")
[QUOTE=Euthanasiast] STFU and tongue my balloon knot, the lot of ya! Christ, I can’t even read the thread next door for all this racket! [/QUOTE] “Tongue my balloon knot”? 😕 _Looks at own belly button_ Hmm. I’m an “inny”. Are you an “outtie”? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/164 "2008-05-12T21:34:25Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Only an omission (as permitted by the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7697048&postcount=11)) of material not relevant to post. The actual text within my quote tags is otherwise unaltered. Again, you are invited to report the post if you nevertheless feel it’s a violation, however, I’ve been around long enough to be fairly certain that nothing will come of such an action. [/QUOTE] Did you leave the text inside the quote tags unaltered and sacrosanct? No. You changed it. It is a separate question whether you did so impermissibly. At which point interpretation of the rules commences. But we are well advised to quiet down and check that subscriptions are working properly. (Edit: works fine) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/165 "2008-05-12T21:39:47Z")
While this discussion of quote style is downright fascinating, how about we get back to comparative governments? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/166 "2008-05-12T21:43:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] ork [/QUOTE] No comment. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/167 "2008-05-12T21:49:22Z")
With all due respect **Bryan** , or **Q.E.D.** for that matter, sevasty is just a smarmy, smug little troll. On the ‘quote battle’, you’ll notice he’s made more than a few posts in this thread where he quotes selectively and leaves out the most of the text of a larger post. He’s not honestly confused as to whether or not that’s somehow against the rules, he’s just trolling you. On the ‘political’ dynamic, he’ll simply weasel and equivocate with maximum snideness and negligible content, if any. Heck, he’s already supported the ethnic cleansing of all Israeli Jews while specifically excluding Christians and Muslims from such actions, adding in his little scumfuck evasion of “it’s an interpretation”. In the past he’s argued that Hamas’ genocidal goals aren’t really genocide, because they consider the Jews to be “dead already”. He’s stated that civility and quiet are his standards for a good state… while simultaneously supporting groups whose goal is the genocide and ethnic cleansing of an entire nation, which he blames for not either simply picking up and fleeing or allowing themselves to be butchered. But of course, all of that is couched in his normal mealy mouthed weaseling. In short, he’s trolling the political discussion, too. He’s just a hateful, dishonest little evil, racist, genocidal troll. You can feed him, flame him or ignore him. But you really can’t get into an honest discussion with him. /$.02 ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/168 "2008-05-12T21:50:22Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] While this discussion of quote style is downright fascinating, how about we get back to comparative governments? [/QUOTE] What was the question? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/169 "2008-05-12T22:19:41Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] “Tongue my balloon knot”? 😕 _Looks at own belly button_ Hmm. I’m an “inny”. Are you an “outtie”? [/QUOTE] When I saw that I was thinking the flipside in which case lets hope it was an outtie or it would be a painful thing indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/170 "2008-05-12T22:30:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] What was the question? [/QUOTE] Is Israel’s system of government better than those of its neighbors? The criteria I suggested were comparisons of democratic representation, civil rights, women’s suffrage and literacy rates, though I’m open to other comparisons as well, including (for example) standards of living, life expectancy, infant mortality, per-capita GDP, etc. The Palestinian occupation is quite the puzzle, I admit, but it is not the defining characteristic of Israel, and can’t be as objectively compared like the criteria listed above. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/171 "2008-05-12T22:46:34Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] What was the quest [/QUOTE] I don’t know…aaaaaaeeeee!! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/172 "2008-05-12T22:59:03Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] With all due respect **Bryan** , or **Q.E.D.** for that matter, sevasty is just a smarmy, smug little troll. [/QUOTE] Oh, clearly. I was hoping to make his head explode, but it’s apparently constructed of some ultra-dense, logicproof material. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/173 "2008-05-12T22:59:05Z")
Hah, excellently done **Ludovic**. I should’ve added “…or mock him” to my list of options above. 😃 Edit: simupost. [QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Oh, clearly. I was hoping to make his head explode, but it’s apparently constructed of some ultra-dense, logicproof material. [/QUOTE] To be fair, I’m not sure your logic rays can penetrate all the way into his rectum. I think his head is safe. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/174 "2008-05-12T22:59:57Z")
For comparing governments, nothing beats the [Polity](http://www.systemicpeace.org/polity/polity4.htm) database … this ranks governments throughout history on a scale of -10 (hereditary monarchy) to +10 (full democracy). Some relevant ratings from 2004: Iran -6 Saudi Arabia -10 Jordan -2 Egypt -6 Afghanistan -7 (year 2000) Libya -7 Morocco -6 Algeria +2 Oman -8 Pakistan -5 Qatar -10 Syria -7 Tunisia -4 Yemen -2 Israel +10 The method used for the ratings is actually quite interesting. It involves, inter alia, who is eligible to lead the country, who is eligible to vote, and the powers conferred on the leader. w. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/175 "2008-05-12T23:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] “Tongue my balloon knot”? 😕 _Looks at own belly button_ Hmm. I’m an “inny”. Are you an “outtie”? [/QUOTE] Wrong hole. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/176 "2008-05-13T00:02:15Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] How do you feel about the Fourth of July? [/QUOTE] Being a European who’s already expressed a distaste for America, he probably dislikes it too. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/177 "2008-05-13T08:53:07Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Is Israel’s system of government better than those of its neighbors? The criteria I suggested were comparisons of democratic representation, civil rights, women’s suffrage and literacy rates, though I’m open to other comparisons as well, including (for example) standards of living, life expectancy, infant mortality, per-capita GDP, etc. The Palestinian occupation is quite the puzzle, I admit, but it is not the defining characteristic of Israel, and can’t be as objectively compared like the criteria listed above. [/QUOTE] The lack of objective comparison is the problem highlighted first up. At the outset I demand a wider definition of the governed population than the studies linked currently admit. So I’m sceptical of the possibility of a resolved argument. Instead I found this article from the LA times to be well argued: [2 State Solution](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-makdisi11-2008may11,0,7862060.story) > [@](#): > > Israel has irreversibly cemented its grip on the land on which a Palestinian state might have been created. > … > At no time since the negotiations began in the early 1990s has Israel significantly suspended the settlement process in the occupied Palestinian territories, in stark violation of international law. It preceded last November’s Annapolis summit by announcing the fresh expropriation of Palestinian property in the West Bank; it followed the summit by announcing the expansion of its Har Homa settlement by an additional 307 housing units; and it has announced plans for hundreds more in other settlements since then. > … > Even among its citizens, Israeli law grants rights to Jews that it denies to non-Jews. By no stretch of the imagination is Israel a genuine democracy: It is an ethno-religiously exclusive state that has tried to defy the multicultural history of the land on which it was founded. How is this relevant? The denial the of fundamental rights of suffrage and representation must supplant concerns for other civil rights. Until this is addressed, we cannot begin to meaningfully compare the qualities of different governments. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/178 "2008-05-13T08:56:22Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Oh, clearly. I was hoping to make his head explode, but it’s apparently constructed of some ultra-dense, logicproof material. [/QUOTE] As per the OP, only the _very best explosions_ … Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/179 "2008-05-13T08:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=intention] For comparing governments, nothing beats the [Polity](http://www.systemicpeace.org/polity/polity4.htm) database … this ranks governments throughout history on a scale of -10 (hereditary monarchy) to +10 (full democracy). … w. [/QUOTE] This looked interesting and far-ranging: Morocco to Pakistan! I couldn’t find where your figures came from, particularly as I looked for Lebanon, Dubai and Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622/180 "2008-05-13T09:04:04Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Being a European who’s already expressed a distaste for America, he probably dislikes it too. [/QUOTE] Wasn’t the OP the one who thought some documentary he saw years ago on the Hawaiian protest movement signalled the beginning of the expulsion of evil America from Hawaii? Kind of a crank crackpot isn’t he, if that was him. Happy Birthday to you, Israel, from a supporter. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-60-years-a-very-improper-celebration-indeed/448622.md?page=10)