# Israel accused of spying on nuke talks and passing the info to US Congress. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865 "2015-03-24T15:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/21 "2015-03-24T23:04:38Z")
I have 2 questions: - Why wasn’t Congress kept in the loop in the first place? - Should we send all future FOIA requests to the Israelis? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/22 "2015-03-24T23:08:56Z")
Here’s the real troublesome part: > [@](#): > > However, what appears to have upset administration officials more than the spying is the use of the classified intelligence acquired to brief members of the US Congress and to persuade them to torpedo the talks. Now I don’t think its treasonous if Congress doesn’t report it, but it definitely is shady all around. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/23 "2015-03-24T23:21:20Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > When it comes to international relations, Congress _is_ the proper authorities. The Senate must consent to any treaty that is made. Congress is not the Executive Branch. They enact legislation, they don’t make operational decisions. But it’s OK. John Boehner just informed everybody today that he is shocked – _ **shocked** _, I tell you – that Israel could have done such a thing! If this information is correct it appears that Israel was playing some of these Republican morons like a violin, but Boehner is apparently the Sergeant Schultz of the 114th US Congress – he sees _ **nothing** _ … he knows _ **nothing** _! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/24 "2015-03-24T23:40:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Congress is not the Executive Branch. They enact legislation, they don’t make operational decisions. > > But it’s OK. John Boehner just informed everybody today that he is shocked – _ **shocked** _, I tell you – that Israel could have done such a thing! If this information is correct it appears that Israel was playing some of these Republican morons like a violin, but Boehner is apparently the Sergeant Schultz of the 114th US Congress – he sees _ **nothing** _ … he knows _ **nothing** _! Hahahaha. Unless you’re quoting another article, the article listed in the OP says Boehner is shocked and baffled by the Obama administration claim that Congress had received such information from Israel. \*The House speaker, John Boehner, said he was “baffled” by the report and denied having received any information from Israel. “I read that story this morning, and frankly, I was a bit shocked, because there’s no information revealed to me whatsoever,” Boehner, a Republican from Ohio, told reporters at a press briefing. “I was shocked by the fact that there were reports in this press article that information was being passed on from the Israelis to members of Congress. I’m not aware of that at all. I’m baffled by it.”\* > **[Alleged Israeli spying on Iran talks leaves members of Congress unmoved](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/24/israeli-spying-iran-talks-members-congress-unmoved)** > > ‘Baffled’ John Boehner denies receiving information from Israel while Senator Graham says ‘If they’re spying, they’re not telling me about it’ ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/25 "2015-03-24T23:46:42Z")
NM…I see it’s already been asked. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/26 "2015-03-24T23:52:51Z")
Congress denies receiving such information from Israel. Israel denies providing such information. The Obama WH spies claim Israel is spying on the Iran nuclear negotiations. Who should the public believe? Did France supply Israel with information about the talks? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/27 "2015-03-25T00:09:59Z")
For there to be an accusation of crime, there must be enough evidence to constitute probable cause. Potentially receiving classified information, or disseminating classified information or acting on it could potentially violate various laws, including the espionage act. That is one of the things that Mr. Snowden’s benefiting journalists are in potential hot water for. But we don’t have information regarding the circumstances here. Assuming the Israeli’s have a source in the Iranian foreign office feeding them information, the Israeli’s could disseminate it in a way that suits them best and it is highly unlikely that any US laws would be broken. Not the same if their source is in the US State Department and the material is classified. But at this stage, this is all a bunch of rumors. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/28 "2015-03-25T00:11:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Congress denies receiving such information from Israel. Israel denies providing such information. The Obama WH spies claim Israel is spying on the Iran nuclear negotiations. Who should the public believe? What branch or people are the “Obama WH spies”? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/29 "2015-03-25T01:09:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > What branch or people are the “Obama WH spies”? According to the cited article, it was a “senior administration official” who broke this story (rumor?). Where do senior administration officials usually get their information from? CIA? NSA? DNC? Putin? Valerie Jarrett? _The Wall Street Journal cited a senior administration official who accused Israeli officials of eavesdropping on the talks and obtaining information from confidential US briefings_. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/30 "2015-03-25T01:49:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > What branch or people are the “Obama WH spies”? That would be Mr Senior A. Officials, also known as “their ass”. This is the pot calling the refrigerator black. The Obama administration has done far worse than spying on a hostile nation which does not recognise your right to exist and is quite open about wanting you to die. It’s like if you entered negotiations with the North Korean government and were somehow stupid enough to be surprised that South Korea knew what the North Koreans were saying about it afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/31 "2015-03-25T02:21:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are lots of ways Israel could receive information on the talks, both fully legally (I understand the French are a lot freer with the information sharing with Israel on the talks than Obama administration) and by clandestine methods (like monitoring/intercepting Iranian government’s internal communications). That is essentially what the Israeli foreign minister is claiming: > **[Israel denies report it spied on US-Iran nuclear talks](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4640554,00.html)** > > Defense Minister Ya'alon says 'there is no way' Israel would spy on its top ally, saying divisive forces behind report: 'Someone has an interest in sparking a dispute.' > [@](#): > > Avigdor Lieberman Foreign Minister said in a radio interview Tuesday that the information in question had come from other parties in the talks, not the US. > > “This report is not true. Obviously Israel has security interests to defend and we have our own intelligence. But we do not spy on the United States. There are enough participants in these negotiations, including Iranians,” he said. “We got our intelligence from other sources, not from the United States. The instruction has been clear for decades now: you don’t spy on the United States, directly or indirectly.” Now, I’m not saying he’s a reliable source. As a general principle, I don’t think foreigners have a moral obligation to obey our laws. But in the case of the Israelis, it’s a matter of self-interest to do so. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/32 "2015-03-25T02:23:40Z")
Does anyone really care that Israel spies on us? That seems to be kind of missing the point of the Administration’s outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/33 "2015-03-25T02:26:55Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Does anyone really care that Israel spies on us? That seems to be kind of missing the point of the Administration’s outrage. Again, can you show me where in the OP article Israel was accused of spying on the US? Not “spying on nuke talks” - on the US. And as for Administration’s outrage - yes, Obama does not want the Congress to know what exactly is being discussed/agreed upon in the talks and is trying to prevent that. That is what he is outraged about. I think Congress should know what is going on. So I don’t share Obama’s outrage. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/34 "2015-03-25T02:27:22Z")
@ Grumman and doorhinge: So no idea then from either of you? Obama’s men in black, so to speak. I’d love to know what you’re thinking by changing kettle to refrigerator… I mean a fridge doesn’t get black so it’s like the opposite meaning of the standard phrase but I honestly don’t get your point. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/35 "2015-03-25T02:31:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, can you show me where in the OP article Israel was accused of spying on the US? Not “spying on nuke talks” - on the US. Again this seems to be a strawman. It doesn’t matter if they were spying on the US or Iran or nuke talks or the secret vote of The Voice or whoever. Israel could be tapping Obama’s personal phone and that’s wouldn’t be the big deal here. (Though if someone is spying on nuke talks involving two parties, they are kind of spying on both parties aren’t they?) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/36 "2015-03-25T02:33:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And as for Administration’s outrage - yes, Obama does not want the Congress to know what exactly is being discussed/agreed upon in the talks and is trying to prevent that. That is what he is outraged about. I think Congress should know what is going on. So I don’t share Obama’s outrage. So going around the acceptable lines of communication is ok if you think the receivers of information “should have known” about it? Does this also apply to say Edward Snowden? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/37 "2015-03-25T02:33:52Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Again this seems to be a strawman. It doesn’t matter if they were spying on the US or Iran or nuke talks or the secret vote of The Voice or whoever. Israel could be tapping Obama’s personal phone and that’s wouldn’t be the big deal here. (Though if someone is spying on nuke talks involving two parties, they are kind of spying on both parties aren’t they?) The talks involve many more than two parties. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/38 "2015-03-25T02:34:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The talks involve many more than two parties. Well, then the answer to your question is apparent, isn’t it? They are spying on all the parties involved. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/39 "2015-03-25T02:36:04Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > So going around the acceptable lines of communication is ok if you think the receivers of information “should have known” about it? Does this also apply to say Edward Snowden? Edward Snowden disseminated classified information. Can you explain, if the information came from non-US sources, how exactly it could be classified? To give you an example: if Edward Snowden somehow got hold of Russian intelligence files that concerned US CIA operations and disseminated them - what would he be guilty of, under US law? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865/40 "2015-03-25T02:37:06Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Well, then the answer to your question is apparent, isn’t it? They are spying on all the parties involved. I don’t think so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-accused-of-spying-on-nuke-talks-and-passing-the-info-to-us-congress/715865.md?page=3)