# Israel, and the USA as of June 21, 2025, strikes dozens of targets in Iran, including nuclear program **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 13, 2025, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556 "2025-06-13T01:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/401 "2025-06-22T01:57:38Z")
Big nukes, sure. But can a seismometer tell the difference between a tactical nuke and a bunker buster of roughly equal yield? Just guessing here (and just guessing at possibilities). Hopefully they didn’t use any nukes. But I don’t put anything past Trump and his team of scumbags. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/402 "2025-06-22T02:00:27Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Current flight of B-2s from the US did the bombing. I’m still not sure how that’s possible, given the distances, times, and speeds. > [@Babale](#): > > If the Iranians were innocently negotiating in good faith, why did they enrich hundreds of kilograms of uranium to 60%, a level that has no peaceful purpose? Most curious. They were doing that before the negotiations. And after the end of the previous deal. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Big nukes, sure. But can a seismometer tell the difference between a tactical nuke and a bunker buster of roughly equal yield? There are no bunker busters of roughly equal yield. To get up to nuke levels of boom, you need, basically, a shipfull of material. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/403 "2025-06-22T02:00:43Z")
Moderating: > [@natureboy](#): > > Because there was no longer an agreement. You’re not one to talk: you all have probably hundreds of nukes that aren’t officially declared. You commit genocide. Not even Iran does that. This stops now. This is a breaking news thread, not somewhere for you to vent your spleen about your feelings about Israel. Stop with the personal attacks or be banned from the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/404 "2025-06-22T02:01:00Z")
For those who want to watch here is a link to the press conference (it has not started yet): There are other channels too. This is just one. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/GpZe7qh2H3I/maxresdefault.jpg "WATCH LIVE: President Trump addresses the nation after U.S. bombs 3 Iranian nuclear sites") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpZe7qh2H3I) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/405 "2025-06-22T02:06:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are no bunker busters of roughly equal yield. To get up to nuke levels of boom, you need, basically, a shipfull of material. I am not an expert, but in my understanding, there are indeed tactical nukes with roughly similar explosive yields to the largest bunker buster bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/406 "2025-06-22T02:06:40Z")
Well…that was a whole nothingburger. No details except that we know the strikes happened. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/407 "2025-06-22T02:08:10Z")
And that Trump and God need to get a room. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/408 "2025-06-22T02:13:34Z")
I didn’t attack any one person; I “attacked” his country. I realize we can’t “attack” God’s ‘chosen people.’ God’s ‘chosen people’ can commit genocide and can advocate for war and genocide as they do on these threads under the pretense of ‘debate’, whereas those who aren’t God’s chosen people can’t call it out for the violations of international law that it is. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/409 "2025-06-22T02:14:36Z")
When Obama took down Osama Bin Laden he took 10 minutes and he did talk alone, like many other presidents before. Instead he needed to have Little Rubio, JD Vance and others in the stage to make a 4 minute nothing burger speech. Trump just continues to miss how weak he looks when he does not take the time or the guts to go to the stage by himself to tell us that he just ordered a war. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/410 "2025-06-22T02:15:06Z")
Moderating: > [@natureboy](#): > > I didn’t attack any one person; I “attacked” his country. I realize we can’t “attack” God’s ‘chosen people.’ God’s ‘chosen people’ can commit genocide and can advocate for war and genocide as they do on these threads under the pretense of ‘debate’, whereas those who aren’t God’s chosen people can’t call it out for the violations of international law that it is. Now you are arguing moderation in this thread. I’m issuing you a warning for doing so, and you are banned from this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/411 "2025-06-22T02:17:42Z")
If it were in open-air, the nukes would have a distinctive double-flash signature that conventional explosives cannot replicate. Makes me wonder if the subterranean detonation (that such a hypothetical bunker-busting nuke would have) would have some similar effect. But…even if Trump surrounded himself with toady generals and advisors, surely even they would counsel him against using tactical nukes. Crossing that threshold would give Russia the green light to use tactical nukes against Ukraine, China and other aggressors do it too etc. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/412 "2025-06-22T02:17:48Z")
I think Netanyahu set up a tap in for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/413 "2025-06-22T02:25:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > such a hypothetical bunker-busting nuke would have Apparently two US nukes are ground penetrating. The B61 mods 11 and 13. But no reason to assume they dropped zebras when horses would work. > **[B61 nuclear bomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb)** > > The B61 nuclear bomb is the primary thermonuclear gravity bomb in the United States Enduring Stockpile following the end of the Cold War. It is a low-to-intermediate yield strategic and tactical nuclear weapon featuring a two-stage radiation implosion design. > The B61 is of the variable yield ("dial-a-yield" in informal military jargon) design with a yield of 0.3 to 340 kilotons in its various mods ("modifications"). It is a Full Fuzing Option (FUFO) weapon, meaning it is equipped with the ful... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/414 "2025-06-22T02:28:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are no bunker busters of roughly equal yield. To get up to nuke levels of boom, you need, basically, a shipfull of material. And if there _were_, wouldn’t they be much worse at penetrating than a conventional penetrator weapon of the same yield? The only special thing about a nuke that could “guarantee” results above conventional weaponry _is_ the yield. A micro-nuke with a yield similar to a conventional bomb wouldn’t be made re effective than said bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/415 "2025-06-22T02:32:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I am not an expert, but in my understanding, there are indeed tactical nukes with roughly similar explosive yields to the largest bunker buster bombs. A quick Google says the MOP is equivalent to 11 tons of TNT. The Hiroshima atomic bomb was equivalent to 15,000 tons of TNT. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/416 "2025-06-22T02:34:20Z")
**iiandyiiii** was right that nukes could be made super-weak, although nobody knows if they still exist today. During the Cold War, the Davy Crockett tactical nuclear weapon could be made as weak as being equivalent to just 10-20 tons of TNT. That’s in the same range of destructive power as a conventional MOP. > **[Davy Crockett (nuclear device)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device))** > > The M28 or M29 Davy Crockett Weapon System was a tactical nuclear recoilless smoothbore gun for firing the M388 nuclear projectile, armed with the W54 nuclear warhead, that was deployed by the United States during the Cold War. It was the first project assigned to the United States Army Weapon Command in Rock Island, Illinois. It remains one of the smallest nuclear weapon systems ever built, incorporating a warhead with yields of 10 to 20 tons of TNT (42 to 84 GJ). It is named after American ... But again, of course, there’s no reason America would or should use a nuke that entails all kinds of bad crossing-the-threshold implications when a conventional bomb would do. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/417 "2025-06-22T03:05:45Z")
I’m currently reading a book about poison gas experimentations in WWI and WWII. Anyway, didn’t we bomb some purported nuclear weapons sites in Iran (or Iraq?) many years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/418 "2025-06-22T03:07:41Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Anyway, didn’t we bomb some purported nuclear weapons sites in Iran (or Iraq?) many years ago? Israel bombed an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981 (but it was not operational yet). > **[Operation Opera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera)** > > Operation Opera (Hebrew: מִבְצָע אוֹפֵּרָה), also known as Operation Babylon, was a surprise airstrike conducted by the Israeli Air Force on 7 June 1981, which destroyed an unfinished Iraqi nuclear reactor located 17 kilometres (11 miles) southeast of Baghdad, Iraq. The Israeli operation came a year after the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force had caused minor damage to the same nuclear facility in Operation Scorch Sword, with the damage having been subsequently repaired by French In 1976, I... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/419 "2025-06-22T03:09:56Z")
Thanks. I wasn’t sure about the details. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/420 "2025-06-22T03:22:55Z")
> **[Live Updates: Trump Claims Success After Bombing Key Iran Nuclear Sites](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/21/world/iran-israel-trump)** > > After hitting Iran’s most heavily fortified nuclear installation, President Trump warned of more strikes “if peace does not come quickly.” Israel’s prime minister called the bombings a “bold decision.” A dozen bunker buster bombs were dropped, most on Fordo (or Fordow as Trump spells it), two on Natanz, plus cruise missile attacks. > A U.S. official said that six B-2 bombers dropped a dozen 30,000-pound bunker buster bombs on the Fordo nuclear site, which lies deep underground, and Navy submarines fired 30 TLAM cruise missiles at the Natanz and Isfahan sites. One B-2 also dropped two bunker busters on Natanz, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss military operations. Sorry, I didn’t look far enough upstream. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=22)