# Israel, and the USA as of June 21, 2025, strikes dozens of targets in Iran, including nuclear program **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 13, 2025, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556 "2025-06-13T01:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/421 "2025-06-22T03:30:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fordo (or Fordow as Trump spells it) I have seen the Fordow spelling long before Trump would have had any idea what it was. It appears to be the more common spelling. Fordo is new to me. I’m not sure why there are two ways to spell it but I get the impression either is correct and/or it’s a quirk of translating from Farsi. You should see the alternate spelling of Qom. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/422 "2025-06-22T03:33:42Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I’m not sure why there are two ways to spell it but I get the impression either is correct and/or it’s a quirk of translating from Farsi. IIRC this is the answer. There is not a 1:1 alphabet translation from one language to the other so the translations are a best attempt at making it sound right when pronounced. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/423 "2025-06-22T03:34:49Z")
Never mind… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/424 "2025-06-22T03:36:36Z")
Just made the comment to note that Trump’s official post used a different spelling than the Times. I don’t believe that Trump himself wrote it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/425 "2025-06-22T04:05:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > A dozen bunker buster bombs were dropped That’s a _lot_ of them. Apparently it isn’t public knowledge how many we have, with Wikipedia saying only “at least twenty”. We might have more than twenty, but probably not hundreds. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/426 "2025-06-22T04:10:51Z")
If these weapons were GBU-57 MOPs (the ones which have been speculated about a lot in this thread), a dozen would require six B-2s, not the three mentioned earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/427 "2025-06-22T04:36:28Z")
“A U.S. official said that six B-2 bombers dropped a dozen 30,000-pound bunker buster bombs on the Fordo nuclear site” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/428 "2025-06-22T04:44:05Z")
Alert just went out for an Iranian barrage. After a 30 hour gap. I suppose we will now see if Iran was really holding much capability back. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/429 "2025-06-22T04:50:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > IIRC this is the answer. There is not a 1:1 alphabet translation from one language to the other so the translations are a best attempt at making it sound right when pronounced. I should add, if you want an “answer” to this then I’d go with [AP News Stylebook.](https://www.apstylebook.com/) It is no more correct than anything else but tends to be what you see in newspapers and magazines so what most people are used to. Again, there is no “right” answer here. Just close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/430 "2025-06-22T04:51:41Z")
I can’t imagine having to duck into a shelter a few times a day (or whatever…even at all). Hope all will be well for you and yours (and everyone). ---
**Author:** ![Petek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/petek/32/1590_2.png) [@Petek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petek)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/431 "2025-06-22T07:12:47Z")
The New York Times ([gift link](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/21/world/iran-israel-trump?unlocked_article_code=1.Q08.c7Ss.5_siWvAcYCSg&smid=url-share)) states that Mehdi Mohammadi, a senior adviser to the speaker of Iran’s Parliament, said on social media that Fordo had been evacuated beforehand and that damage there was “not irreversible.” Assuming that Fordo really was evacuated beforehand, does that mean that Iran had advance knowledge of the attack? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/432 "2025-06-22T07:15:56Z")
> [@Petek](#): > > Assuming that Fordo really was evacuated beforehand, does that mean that Iran had advance knowledge of the attack? Probably everyone knew Fordo was a primary target because the whole reason for this attack is Iran’s nuclear program and Fordo is at the center of that. Indeed, likely Target #1 (top of the list). No one wants to hang around and see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/433 "2025-06-22T07:57:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Sure, but the idea that somehow terrorists without a massive and powerful state sponsor are something we should fear _more than_ the _current_ situation, of a well integrated network of terrorists backed by a sophisticated and powerful Iran, is baffling to me. This is true for Israel, but Iran wasn’t at war with America until today. There are a range of American bases and shipping within range of Iranian missiles, or they could attempt a terrorist attack in the US. I can’t imagine the Iranians want to fight the US though, especially when they are already weakened. It’s hard to know what they’ll do. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/434 "2025-06-22T07:59:08Z")
Btw, does this whole operation have an official name? Like how the airstrikes on Iraq in 1998 were titled Operation Desert Fox? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/435 "2025-06-22T09:54:11Z")
> [@Petek](#): > > Mehdi Mohammadi, a senior adviser to the speaker of Iran’s Parliament, said on social media that Fordo had been evacuated beforehand What does “evacuated” mean? People? Uranium? Equipment? All of the above? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/436 "2025-06-22T10:04:21Z")
From professor Tim Snyder [@timothysnyder.bsky.social on Bluesky](https://bsky.app/profile/timothysnyder.bsky.social/post/3ls6a4s45w22q) : "Five things to remember about war: 1. Many things reported with confidence in the first hours and days will turn out not to be true 2. Whatever they say, the people who start wars are often thinking chiefly about domestic politics 3. The rationale given for a war will change over time, such that actual success or failure in achieving a named objective is less relevant than one might think 4. Wars are unpredictable 5. Wars are easy to start and hard to stop" ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/437 "2025-06-22T11:40:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I am not an expert, but in my understanding, there are indeed tactical nukes with roughly similar explosive yields to the largest bunker buster bombs. Technically just barely, if we dig into history. The MOP has a weight of 15 tons, of which perhaps 50% is explosives (the rest is dumb ballast), so a yield of 7-8 tons. The Davy Crockett, on its lowest-yield setting, was a yield of 10 tons. But the Davy Crockett isn’t made any more, because it never had any practical use. There are also other ways to detect a nuke quickly. The US, at least, has satellites that can detect the gamma flash from a nuclear explosion. I’m not sure about any other country, but I’d expect that China and some European countries probably do, too (Russia probably had them, but I don’t have any confidence in Russian systems still working). And if any nation had evidence of anyone using nukes, they’d raise a big diplomatic stink at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/438 "2025-06-22T12:22:54Z")
Israel’s stated reason for starting the war is now accomplished, are they going to step back now? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/439 "2025-06-22T12:27:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I suppose we will now see if Iran was really holding much capability back. It makes sense to deplete the Israeli air defenses a bit at a time. Launch the cheaper ones first that deplete the iron dome. Save the bigger, faster ones for later, which we have been seeing a few of them being used. If history is a teacher they are willing to bide their time with this and not be drawn in to a ‘grande finally’. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/440 "2025-06-22T12:55:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Btw, does this whole operation have an official name? Like how the airstrikes on Iraq in 1998 were titled Operation Desert Fox? Operation Midnight Hammer [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=23)