# Israel, and the USA as of June 21, 2025, strikes dozens of targets in Iran, including nuclear program **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 13, 2025, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556 "2025-06-13T01:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/461 "2025-06-22T15:55:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Returning to breaking news, I’m now getting news alerts that a “top US general” says the site was severely damaged, but it’s too soon to know if Iran retains nuclear capability. That’s not really news, beyond it being refreshing that the general is telling the truth. Even before the bombing, it was known that it’d be almost impossible to verify total destruction without boots on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/462 "2025-06-22T16:01:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Returning to breaking news, I’m now getting news alerts that a “top US general” says the site was severely damaged, but it’s too soon to know if Iran retains nuclear capability. > > (No doubt there are more details if i click the links, but i haven’t.) I would think that if the uranium material was hit, that a radiation signature could be get, “severely damaged” does not tell us that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/463 "2025-06-22T16:05:28Z")
Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/464 "2025-06-22T16:32:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Or, like I said - they could have gone with the CANDU design. Looks like Iran said “I can’t go for that… no CANDU”. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/465 "2025-06-22T16:37:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But, honestly, can we PLEASE keep the “nuclear option” off the table? Pretty please? Pentagon pushing Pershings for Persia. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/466 "2025-06-22T16:48:25Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Nope. IMO you’re wildly overreacting to a routine skirmish. Thoughts? Did the OP wildly react? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/467 "2025-06-22T16:48:50Z")
Some in Congress are raising opposition to the action. Trump has no declaration of war, and no wishy-washy _authorization for use of military force_, either. By what authority is he bombing this country? > **[Republican lawmaker on US bombs against Iran: ‘This is not constitutional’](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5362332-massie-on-u-s-bombs-against-iran-this-is-not-constitutional/amp/)** > > Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), one of the most vocal Republicans pushing against American intervention in Iran, posted on X that President Trump’s bombing of Iranian nuclear sites is unconstitutional.… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/468 "2025-06-22T17:02:31Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Trump has no declaration of war, and no wishy-washy _authorization for use of military force_, either. Pretty sure someone at DoJ/DoD must have already printed a statement that the post-9/11 “emergency authorization” to act against “terrorist sponsors”, or some other such authority regarding defense of Israel, extends to _anything_ POTUS wants to do against Iran. But it being Trump he doesn’t care to act like he needs to justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/469 "2025-06-22T17:19:45Z")
The Washington Post wrote: > Presidents have some unilateral war-making power. Barack Obama did not ask Congress to authorize his air campaign in Libya in 2011. The exact limits of that power are blurry, defined by politics, not law. Assuredly, this will be brought up incessantly in the coming weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/470 "2025-06-22T17:33:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I would think that if the uranium material was hit, that a radiation signature could be get, “severely damaged” does not tell us that. It’s still hundreds of feet below ground. If the bombing was completely successful, then what we’d have would be uranium (and processing equipment and offices and people and…) buried in a cave-in, still hundreds of feet below ground. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/471 "2025-06-22T17:48:32Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > What does “evacuated” mean? People? Uranium? Equipment? All of the above? [All of the above.](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/22/satellite-images-show-activity-at-irans-fordo-before-us-air-strikes.html) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/472 "2025-06-22T17:56:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So is being bombed to rubble; they don’t have anything to lose at this point. How has Iran been bombed to rubble? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/473 "2025-06-22T18:01:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How has Iran been bombed to rubble? It hasn’t yet, but it will be. That’s what happens when the enemy demands unconditional surrender, like Trump did. I expect he’ll eventually just use nuclear weapons when they refuse to submit. “It worked on Japan!” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/474 "2025-06-22T18:04:19Z")
Moderating: > [@Magiver](#): > > How has Iran been bombed to rubble? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It hasn’t yet, but it will be. That’s what happens when the enemy demands unconditional surrender, like Trump did. I expect he’ll eventually just use nuclear weapons when they refuse to submit. “It worked on Japan!” Please keep in mind this is a breaking news thread. For speculative discussion, please take that elsewhere. Here’s a handy thread in P&E: > [@The 2025 Israel vs Iran and geopolitical implications thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2025-israel-vs-iran-and-geopolitical-implications-thread/1019829/): > > (As two P&E threads have been closed for lack of content and as the MPSIMS thread is dedicated to breaking news, here is a proper, dedicated thread for P&E where posters can get into the intricacies of the conflict along with strong opinions about each of the players.) For context, on June 13th, 2025, Israel attacked Iran with airstrikes and drone strikes, hitting military infrastructure, high ranking commanders and a variety of targets related to Iran’s nuclear program. Iran has retaliated wit… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/475 "2025-06-22T18:17:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Is it a different process using different equipment? My understanding was that it’s the same exact process, you just do it for longer on the same batch of Uranium to get more highly enriched stuff. Since I’m not at work today and we’re discussing this I found more information on how uranium is enriched for various purposes. There are multiple methods available, although apparently only two have ever been used commercially. [See here.](https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/conversion-enrichment-and-fabrication/uranium-enrichment#enrichment-processes) The centrifuge method is, apparently, the most cost-efficient, especially if you aren’t factoring the costs to your nation’s infrastructure from being bombed by people who don’t want you refining weapons-grade uranium. Bottom line - Iran _could_ have used a different method but chose not to. Again, because they wanted the weapon option. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/476 "2025-06-22T18:59:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s still hundreds of feet below ground. If the bombing was completely successful, then what we’d have would be uranium (and processing equipment and offices and people and…) buried in a cave-in, still hundreds of feet below ground. IIUC one can then detect uranium deep underground by detecting Radon on the ground. It can be detected because rocks could be porous when looking for deep underground uranium, I would think what was left of the location is more porous than solid rock. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/477 "2025-06-22T19:07:15Z")
True. But there is a percolation rate. The radon detected above a natural uranium deposit 300 feet down may have spent 10,000 centuries slowly percolating to the surface. A bunch of uranium enrichment debris buried 300 feet down in a destroyed hardened facility may percolate a lot faster than that. But it may not be next week, or even next decade before it’s at the surface above the facility. And until somebody whose word you choose to trust can stand there with a radon detector, you won’t know what to believe. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/478 "2025-06-22T19:10:43Z")
I know, the problem of having unreliable narrators as rulers (that goes for Iran, Israel and particularly the US) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/479 "2025-06-22T19:18:35Z")
Part of my point was that remote sensing won’t give anyone an answer. The tech doesn’t work that way. Somebody needs to go stand atop the facility with a handheld or truck mounted detector. Which is separate from the “unreliable” part. But as you say the results will certainly confounded by that unreliability factor too. E.g. _if_ next week Iran announces “There’s no surface contamination”, or they announce “There’s massive surface contamination”, credible arguments by sane outside experts can be made that they’re motivated to tell the truth, or that they’re motivated to lie. And of course the insane clown posse / CT mongers will have plenty of specious arguments of their own being shouted from rooftops. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/480 "2025-06-22T19:55:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Part of my point was that remote sensing won’t give anyone an answer. The tech doesn’t work that way. Somebody needs to go stand atop the facility with a handheld or truck mounted detector. And if that person is there with the detector and the truck anyway, they might as well just go in the access tunnels and take a look at the damage directly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=25)