# Israel, and the USA as of June 21, 2025, strikes dozens of targets in Iran, including nuclear program **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 13, 2025, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556 "2025-06-13T01:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/121 "2025-06-14T23:33:41Z")
ETA: @iiandyiiii 2 posts up. Shooting $10K missiles at $1K drones is a form of economic warfare the drone side is likely to win. For darn sure both sides are burning through backstock at a furious pace. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/122 "2025-06-14T23:55:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So, who runs out first…Iran or Israel? Iran does not have the launchers needed for extended warfare. They’re using portable launchers and moving them to avoid destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/123 "2025-06-14T23:56:46Z")
The first missiles in the barrage have already arrived, and the Iranians are apparently still shooting. There’s also a Shahed drone flying around and so far evading being shot down. Yemen launched a ballistic missile as well. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/124 "2025-06-15T00:35:04Z")
The death count in Tamra is up to 5. Meanwhile, an elderly woman was killed in the latest barrage, at an undisclosed site in the center of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/125 "2025-06-15T02:51:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Meanwhile, an elderly woman was killed in the latest barrage, at an undisclosed site in the center of the country. This was a building that collapsed in the city of Bat Yam. Four people dead at that site now, including two young children. ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/126 "2025-06-15T11:26:34Z")
The death toll in Tamra is now 6. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So, who runs out first…Iran or Israel? Well… in terms of numbers, though obviously not casualties, the barrage last night was [significantly smaller](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-iran-launches-some-80-ballistic-missiles-in-overnight-barrages/) than the ones Friday evening/Saturday morning. A complication for Iran is that, with air superiority, the IAF has been able to hunt ballistic missile launchers at will, so 1. even if they have sufficient stockpiles they may not have the ability to use them and 2. perhaps being more judicious in when they use them and what on. On the other hand, Iran may be looking for an offramp; the foreign minister says Iran [does not want to expand the war](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-15/ty-article-live/eight-israelis-killed-over-130-wounded-overnight-in-two-missile-barrages-from-iran/00000197-7171-d3ff-a7bf-75f1588b0004?liveBlogItemId=1576491860) and according to the Greek PM the Iranians want to deliver “some messages” via Cyprus. Airstrikes appear to be ongoing over Tehran. Looking at the fire maps from NASA’s [FIRMS](https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2025-06-15,2025-06-15;l:fires_all,terra_crc,street;@51.43,35.59,11.29z), the Tehran Oil Refinery in the southeast appears to be burning for a third day. The facility at Shahran, in the northwest, was also attacked and on fire [as of this morning](https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1934061176977002667). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/127 "2025-06-15T14:47:35Z")
The last Iranian barrage seems to have been neutralized with no injuries. A relief, after the heavy damage from the night before. Meanwhile, reports from Iran say a large number of additional nuclear scientists were taken out; there have also been strikes against oil infrastructure. Considering the issues that Iran already had with their economy, this could be disastrous for the Ayatollahs’ grasp over their own country. The expectation is that both sides will continue like this for at least a few weeks. Iran has plenty of weapons stockpiled, and while Israel is striking those targets there are limits to what can be accomplished. (Actually, literally as I was typing that sentence, the news showed footage from an Iranian “missiles city” that was hit by IDF airstrikes! Article below about what a “missile city” is, and what may have happened to it.) > **[Iran Shows Off Underground 'Missile City'](https://www.twz.com/news-features/iran-shows-off-underground-missile-city)** > > The facility holds some of Iran's most advanced weapons, but there appears to be a glaring vulnerability in how it is constructed. It sounds like even the deeply fortified nuclear reactors are potentially vulnerable to prolonged assault. While the IDF doesn’t have the enormous penetrating bombs the US has, repeated attack from smaller bombs could eventually cause the underground facilities to cave in. This might take literal weeks of bombing of the same site, so if that’s what it is going to take, the IDF will need to maintain aerial superiority for that entire length of time. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/128 "2025-06-15T14:51:07Z")
> [@DETXL](#): > > On the other hand, Iran may be looking for an offramp; the foreign minister says Iran [does not want to expand the war](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-15/ty-article-live/eight-israelis-killed-over-130-wounded-overnight-in-two-missile-barrages-from-iran/00000197-7171-d3ff-a7bf-75f1588b0004?liveBlogItemId=1576491860) and according to the Greek PM the Iranians want to deliver “some messages” via Cyprus. If that was their plan, the targeting of population centers rather than army bases this time around was a bad move. They were warned not to do so at the beginning of the war, but of course they very much did. The result is the escalation of Israeli airstrikes today, and the targeting of oil infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/129 "2025-06-15T14:53:41Z")
It sounds like a number of the eliminated nuclear scientists and other government officials were taken out by Iranian opposition forces, not Israel. No idea if this was coordinated or not. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/130 "2025-06-15T14:58:14Z")
> **[Yair Lapid: As Iran vows our destruction, Israel unites | The Jerusalem Post](https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-857803)** > > The Iranian regime has repeatedly said, without hesitation and without shame, that its ultimate goal is the destruction of the State of Israel. Opinion piece from Yair Lapid, leader of the opposition, on his perspective on the war. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/131 "2025-06-15T15:10:15Z")
Interesting “wag-the-dog”-esque effect: Netanyahu’s leadership is harder to contest if he’s a war leader. ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/132 "2025-06-15T15:25:57Z")
They have also since denied these reports in favor of deciding that attacks on Iranian energy infrastructure marks a [new red line that has been crossed](https://p.dw.com/p/4vwk4). Given their _current_ position towards Israel I’m not sure what that is intended to mean, since it’s not like the Axis of Resistance has a double secret probation option. Conceivably doubling down is meant specifically _in order to_ further shore up support from their proxies, since Hezbollah in Lebanon has sat by and their Iraqi arm said earlier today, incredibly, that they were not aiding Iran [because Iran did not need any help to confront Israeli aggression](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-15/ty-article-live/eight-israelis-killed-over-130-wounded-overnight-in-two-missile-barrages-from-iran/00000197-7171-d3ff-a7bf-75f1588b0004?liveBlogItemId=384313110). Also those remarks come after Iran said they were limiting cooperation with the IAEA and will “no longer announce the details of our nuclear activities to the Agency in advance.” I don’t speak Farsi and I am not keyed in enough to know whether this is spreading on Iranian social media, or whether this is post-hoc rationalization instead of propaganda, but a new conspiracy theory I’ve seen is that the IAEA obtained details about Iranian nuclear scientists to leak them to the Israelis. > [@Babale](#): > > It sounds like a number of the eliminated nuclear scientists and other government officials were taken out by Iranian opposition forces, not Israel. No idea if this was coordinated or not. Yeah, at least some of them were car bombs, apparently, which seems a bit unlikely under the circumstances and which I’ve seen at least some reporting that Mossad has already denied involvement in. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/133 "2025-06-15T15:26:10Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Interesting “wag-the-dog”-esque effect: Netanyahu’s leadership is harder to contest if he’s a war leader Not that it matters: the vote of no confidence came before the fighting with Iran, and there can’t be another one for 6 months. The opposition knew they weren’t going to win the vote but did it anyways because it strips the ultra Orthodox parties of their leverage. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/134 "2025-06-15T15:31:32Z")
> [@DETXL](#): > > Given their _current_ position towards Israel I’m not sure what that is intended to mean, since it’s not like the Axis of Resistance has a double secret probation option. Yeah, when your stated position on another government is that they are an abomination that should not exist and must be destroyed, you really leave yourself with very little room for escalation. > [@DETXL](#): > > Conceivably doubling down is meant specifically _in order to_ further shore up support from their proxies, since Hezbollah in Lebanon has sat by Yeah, I think they’re still smarting from their last tussle with Israel! The current operations in Iran could simply not be conducted this way if Iran hadn’t previously had their proxies degraded. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/135 "2025-06-15T15:36:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Yeah, when your stated position on another government is that they are an abomination that should not exist and must be destroyed, you really leave yourself with very little room for escalation. Very little room for _rhetorical_ escalation. But as between a tense peace stretching over a decade or more versus all out war _today_ there are still a lot of steps in the middle. Whether measured in space, time, or nature and level of violence. In many ways it’s helpful that the two countries not only don’t share a border, but also have a lot of distance between each other. If, counterfactually, Iran was located where Iraq or Saudi Arabia are, such that skinny Jordan was the only buffer between them, the overall prospects for uncontrolled escalation would be far more grim. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/136 "2025-06-15T15:39:14Z")
This provides a reasonable explanation of the political situation that brought this to a vote. I doubt there is serious opposition to this war with Iran, they are the actual threat to Israel’s existence, not Hamas or Houthis. I think it’s the general attitude of the world too. There are those America First traitors here but they don’t have much support when it comes to this action because Iran is seen as a threat to the world since they are motivated by religious hatred that can’t be overcome through politics, diplomacy, or economy. They willingly sacrifice their own people and everything they have in this single minded pursuit. Israel is attacking the body of the Hydra which is a good thing for the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/137 "2025-06-15T15:40:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But as between a tense peace and all out war _today_ there are still a lot of steps in the middle. Sure, but there hasn’t been a tense peace for almost two years. Iran has been attacking us full force, with its weapons of choice generally being a proxy, but that doesn’t make it less of an attack. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/138 "2025-06-15T15:42:13Z")
Agreed. I was not trying to suggest that tense peace was the situation a week or a month ago. Iran’s stated policy of destroying Israel goes back to the early days of the Iranian revolution. Right now is as hot as that long-running war of words and deeds has ever gotten. What happens next is highly unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/139 "2025-06-15T16:17:27Z")
The Iranian head of intelligence and his successor were both eliminated by an Israeli airstrike, according to Iranian opposition forces. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556/140 "2025-06-15T18:04:58Z")
In what I can only assume is another example of TACO, Trump apparently has no appetite for a decapitation strike on Iran’s Supreme Leader: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-vetoed-an-israeli-plan-kill-irans-supreme-leader-us-officials-say-2025-06-15/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-vetoed-an-israeli-plan-kill-irans-supreme-leader-us-officials-say-2025-06-15/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-as-of-june-21-2025-strikes-dozens-of-targets-in-iran-including-nuclear-program/1019556.md?page=8)