# Israel and the USA-Why Does This Farce Continue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387 "2010-03-13T20:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/121 "2010-03-15T16:29:15Z")
Sorry, \*\*Marley \*\*et al. I shouldn’t have said that. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/122 "2010-03-15T16:40:41Z")
Well, I guess the whole US-Israel relationship will continue on-with Us and Israeli politicians continuing to act like they know nothing. We will continue to have expressions of “surprise” and sincere “apologies”-and then things will continue on. So don’t expect any changes from Obama-this little “incident” is really nothing. The only problem-$3 billion here, $3 billion there…pretty soon it adds up. Pretty soon the US taxpayers are going to wonder why we have crumbling roads and bridges, and why nothing ever gets fixed…but that is OK, we can point to those brand new condos in Israel! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/123 "2010-03-15T16:49:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What troubles me is that they don’t seem aware of the fact that these distinctions are important _to Israelis_, both in the political system and among the general public. By treating the settlements around which there is the most consensus (like E. J-lem) in exactly the same manner as they would two trailers and a goat in the Samarian mountains, the only thing they’ve managed to do is rally the Israeli public against them - and without the support of the Israeli public, there will be no peace process. What responsibility does the Israeli public, or government for that matter, have in regard to the problem, then? You don’t mention any. But you surely can see that those attitudes, and the actions based on them, have some severely negative consequences. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/124 "2010-03-15T16:49:47Z")
What are your views on South Korea, Ralph? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/125 "2010-03-15T16:51:13Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > So there can be no negotiations with a people who use terrorism as part of their strategy for attaining their own state? I think you know by now that **Finn** opposes any peace negotiations not based on “the other side’s” _a priori_ unconditional surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/126 "2010-03-15T16:57:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What responsibility does the Israeli public, or government for that matter, have in regard to the problem, then? You don’t mention any. But you surely can see that those attitudes, and the actions based on them, have some severely negative consequences. Sorry - I don’t fully understand your question. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/127 "2010-03-15T17:00:57Z")
Awww Elvis, that’s cute, would you like to imagine anything else and pretend I said that, too? Come on, really go nuts, why stick to small bits of imagination? Why not “Finn drinks baby blood!” or “Finn wants to release anthrax into Ramallah!” Come up Elvis, if you’re going to imagine something, imagine something _really_ shocking. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/128 "2010-03-15T17:05:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t expect the White House to distinguish between these various catergories, although they should. What troubles me is that they don’t seem aware of the fact that these distinctions are important _to Israelis_ Hence it’s OK for Israelis to piss on the VP? Sorry, but my mom taught me to treat my friends with respect, even if I secretly think they’re stupid. Is that somehow too much to ask of our Israeli friends? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/129 "2010-03-15T17:06:32Z")
In fairness, that could have been just extreme stupidity. That can happen anywhere, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/130 "2010-03-15T17:09:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Sorry - I don’t fully understand your question. You seem to place all the responsibility for “understanding” Israeli attitudes on the Americans, and none on the Israelis for having those attitudes, or for recognizing and accepting their consequences, or for understanding anyone else’s attitudes in response to those Israeli attitudes. Maybe your question there reflects the problem. **Finn** , perhaps you could give **Dick** a response? An adult one, if you can manage it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/131 "2010-03-15T17:16:49Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Hence it’s OK for Israelis to piss on the VP? > Sorry, but my mom taught me to treat my friends with respect, even if I secretly think they’re stupid. > Is that somehow too much to ask of our Israeli friends? Oh, you won’t find me supporting Bibi Netanyahu. The man’s an incompetant fool- an empty suit who can’t even control his own government and has no plan beyond surviving another day in office. Unfortnately, it’s this very lack of ability that indicates - to me at least - that the snub wasn’t intentional, if only because he lacks the ability to do this kind of thing on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/132 "2010-03-15T17:19:22Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In fairness, that could have been just extreme stupidity.. Calculated, years long, extreme stupidity? The time comes when you have to stop cutting them slack for stuff like this. They’re harming American interests: > [@](#): > > On Jan. 16, two days after a killer earthquake hit Haiti, a team of senior military officers from the U.S. Central Command (responsible for overseeing American security interests in the Middle East), arrived at the Pentagon to brief Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Michael Mullen on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The team had been dispatched by CENTCOM commander Gen. David Petraeus to underline his growing worries at the lack of progress in resolving the issue. The 33-slide, 45-minute PowerPoint briefing stunned Mullen. The briefers reported that there was a growing perception among Arab leaders that the U.S. was incapable of standing up to Israel, that CENTCOM’s mostly Arab constituency was losing faith in American promises, that Israeli intransigence on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was jeopardizing U.S. standing in the region, and that Mitchell himself was (as a senior Pentagon officer later bluntly described it) “too old, too slow … and too late.” [The Petraeus briefing: Biden’s embarrassment is not the whole story](http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/14/the_petraeus_briefing_biden_s_embarrassment_is_not_the_whole_story) > [@](#): > > Not surprisingly, what Biden told Netanyahu reflected the importance the administration attached to Petraeus’s Mullen briefing: “This is starting to get dangerous for us,” Biden reportedly told Netanyahu. “What you’re doing here undermines the security of our troops who are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. That endangers us and it endangers regional peace.” Yedioth Ahronoth went on to report: “The vice president told his Israeli hosts that since many people in the Muslim world perceived a connection between Israel’s actions and US policy, any decision about construction that undermines Palestinian rights in East Jerusalem could have an impact on the personal safety of American troops fighting against Islamic terrorism.” The message couldn’t be plainer: Israel’s intransigence could cost American lives. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/133 "2010-03-15T17:19:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You seem to place all the responsibility for “understanding” Israeli attitudes on the Americans, and none on the Israelis for having those attitudes, or for recognizing and accepting their consequences, or for understanding anyone else’s attitudes in response to those Israeli attitudes. Which Israeli attitudes? My post described several - which were you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/134 "2010-03-15T17:22:49Z")
There are only two issues for Israsel, security of the state folowed by security of the people - in comparison, nothing else matters. Ever. The creation of a Palestinian Stae serves neither and potentially harms both - it ain’t gonna happen. Ever. The rest is just noise. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/135 "2010-03-15T17:25:05Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > The time comes when you have to stop cutting them slack for stuff like this. They’re harming American interests: Oh, that’s rich. You invade Iraq for no damn reason, strengthening Iran and creating tens of thousands of new terrorists (who will turn on us as soon as you leave), and \*we’re \*destabalizing the region? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/136 "2010-03-15T17:25:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which Israeli attitudes? My post described several - which were you referring to? All of them. Including the implicit ones I made explicit for you. Do you \*really \*not understand? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/137 "2010-03-15T17:28:02Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > The creation of a Palestinian Stae serves neither and potentially harms both - it ain’t gonna happen. Ever. > > The rest is just noise. Then there will be no peace - ever. And it won’t be all their fault. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/138 "2010-03-15T17:28:05Z")
That we don’t simplify complex situations? Sorry - we’re not Americans. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/139 "2010-03-15T17:28:12Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > The creation of a Palestinian Stae serves neither and potentially harms both - it ain’t gonna happen. Ever. Not true. By the end of Clinton’s time, they were very, very close to an agreement that would have seen two states with peace and security. There’s no guarantee that a Palestinian state would serve as a threat to the Israeli state or the Israeli people. After Clinton, for obvious reasons, things got very sticky and the Israelis weren’t about to trust the PA again any time soon. Hamas’ election victories and the situation in Gaza reinforced that issue. But Abbas seems to be holding his territory in line and has clamped down on violence. Enough time spent on that and a peace treaty is quite possible. > [@Alessan](#): > > Sorry - we’re not Americans. Come on. Some of us care more about history, facts and current events than rhetoric and some of us can even differentiate between factions and agendas. Don’t judge all Americans by our less impressive and louder specimens. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387/140 "2010-03-15T17:34:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Oh, that’s rich. You invade Iraq for no damn reason, strengthening Iran and creating tens of thousands of new terrorists (who will turn on us as soon as you leave), and \*we’re \*destabalizing the region? I don’t care if it’s rich, I care if it’s the truth. It is. Besides, without Israeli ‘help’ we may have never obtained all that great evidence of the threat posed by Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction. Tell us now how Israel was a voice of sanity in the run up to conquest. That’d be pretty funny! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-and-the-usa-why-does-this-farce-continue/532387.md?page=8)