# Israel can't sit on the U.N. Security Council? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981 "2008-03-19T19:54:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/1 "2008-03-19T19:54:19Z")
I recently received a form letter from the American Jewish Committee, and in one of the inserts that came with the form letter was a list of nations, on one side a list of nations under the heading “Countries eligible to sit on the United Nations Security Council” (which seemed to list most of the world’s nations), and on the other side was a list of nations under the heading “Countries not eligible to sit on the United Nations Security Council”, which listed, (in big red letters) only one nation, and that nation was Israel. Is this actually true? Is Israel the only country actually not eligible to sit on the U.N. Security Council? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/2 "2008-03-19T19:59:47Z")
From the wikipedia article on the UNSC: > [@](#): > > Until 2000 Israel was the only United Nations member country not a member of any regional group and so could not be elected to the Security Council or become involved in many consultative UN bodies. Israel would normally fall within the Asia group but many Arab states blocked Israel’s inclusion in this group. In 2000 Israel was granted temporary membership in the Western European and Others Group (WEOG) and this was extended indefinitely in 2004. Israel is limited in the activities that it can undertake as part of WEOG. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/3 "2008-03-19T20:19:53Z")
Interesting, the smart aleck answer to the title was “Of course not, Israel doesn’t get along well enough with its neighbors” and the real truth appears to be not terribly far off from that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/4 "2008-03-19T21:19:33Z")
That’s crap. They should should just walk into the chamber one day, sit down, and dare anyone to try to remove them. Of course, history indicates that those who try end up losing most of their own seats… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/5 "2008-03-19T21:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] That’s crap. They should should just walk into the chamber one day, sit down, and dare anyone to try to remove them. Of course, history indicates that those who try end up losing most of their own seats… [/QUOTE] What are you talking about? The Security Council is limited to members voted in by the General Assembly. You don’t just get to walk in and sit down at the table no matter who you are. And what “history” are you talking about??? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/6 "2008-03-19T21:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] And what “history” are you talking about??? [/QUOTE] My guess would be [this.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism) ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/7 "2008-03-19T22:04:12Z")
According the Wikipedia’s page on the [Regional Groups](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Regional_Groups), Kiribati is also not a member of any group, and would thus also be ineligible to be a Security Council member. (The US isn’t in any groups either, but, as a permanent member, that doesn’t matter.) And, yeah, I’d imagine that if Israel tried to claim a seat that it wasn’t elected to, Libya wouldn’t even hesitate to demand their removal, while the others, at best, might point out politely that “that’s just not how it works” and “rules are rules”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/8 "2008-03-19T22:06:25Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] That’s crap. They should should just walk into the chamber one day, sit down, and dare anyone to try to remove them. [/QUOTE] In a stirring display of solidarity, fellow WEOG member Germany offers to seal the chamber doors. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/9 "2008-03-19T22:10:26Z")
[QUOTE=kitemaker\_chuck] Is this actually true? Is Israel the only country actually not eligible to sit on the U.N. Security Council? [/QUOTE] Do you consider the “Holy See” to be a country? Greenland? Lesotho? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/10 "2008-03-19T22:11:21Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] What are you talking about? The Security Council is limited to members voted in by the General Assembly. You don’t just get to walk in and sit down at the table no matter who you are. And what “history” are you talking about??? [/QUOTE] Methinks you have been whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/11 "2008-03-19T22:13:22Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Methinks you have been whooshed. [/QUOTE] Personally, I take multiple question marks as a sign of a particularly good whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/12 "2008-03-19T22:21:59Z")
[QUOTE=kitemaker\_chuck] Is this actually true? Is Israel the only country actually not eligible to sit on the U.N. Security Council? [/QUOTE] One thing I know for sure. The Republic of China is definitely not eligible for a seat on the UN Security Council. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/13 "2008-03-19T22:26:11Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Do you consider the “Holy See” to be a country? Greenland? Lesotho? [/QUOTE] Are they ineligible for the UNSC? (I’m sure [Greenland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland) is ineligible, but it’s technically a Danish province, not an independent state.) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/14 "2008-03-19T22:40:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Are they ineligible for the UNSC? (I’m sure [Greenland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland) is ineligible, but it’s technically a Danish province, not an independent state.) [/QUOTE] I had thought Lesotho was not a UN member state, but looking at [this list](http://www.un.org/members/list.shtml), it would appear that it is. According to the UN web site, the Holy See is a [Non-Member State](http://www.un.org/members/nonmembers.shtml) So I would assume that the Holy See is not eligible to sit on the security counsel. I agree to some extent about the Republic of China, except that (as far as I know) Taiwan has yet to declare its own independance. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/15 "2008-03-19T22:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] From the wikipedia article on the UNSC: [/QUOTE] Still not clear to me if Israel can, or cannot, be elected to the SC. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/16 "2008-03-19T22:45:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Personally, I take multiple question marks as a sign of a particularly good whoosh. [/QUOTE] Is there some sort of reference I’m missing? Because I’m really not seeing the joke here. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/17 "2008-03-19T22:50:26Z")
[QUOTE=waterj2] Is there some sort of reference I’m missing? Because I’m really not seeing the joke here. [/QUOTE] The “joke”, such that it is, is that Israel would then be acting exactly as some lacking in historical nuance claim Zionists behaved in forming the state of Israel itself - simply marching in and seizing a seat, as Zionists marched in and seized the land of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/18 "2008-03-19T23:01:12Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I had thought Lesotho was not a UN member state, but looking at [this list](http://www.un.org/members/list.shtml), it would appear that it is. According to the UN web site, the Holy See is a [Non-Member State](http://www.un.org/members/nonmembers.shtml) So I would assume that the Holy See is not eligible to sit on the security counsel. I agree to some extent about the Republic of China, except that (as far as I know) Taiwan has yet to declare its own independance. [/QUOTE] When did Britain declare her independance? The Republic of China was a founding member of the UN. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/19 "2008-03-19T23:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=waterj2] Is there some sort of reference I’m missing? Because I’m really not seeing the joke here. [/QUOTE] As **BrainGlutton** alluded to already, Zionism was basically sitting down at the table and daring the rest of the Middle East to remove them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981/20 "2008-03-20T00:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Still not clear to me if Israel can, or cannot, be elected to the SC. [/QUOTE] Can, but probably won’t. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cant-sit-on-the-u-n-security-council/441981.md?page=2)