# Israel Cautions Obama Against "Early" Talks With Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491 "2008-11-06T18:41:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/1 "2008-11-06T18:41:50Z")
I don’t get it: israel WANTS a hostile and isolated iran? What good is that? Israel cannot destroy iran’s uranium enrichment plants-they are too far away, too numerous, and too well-defended. So why attempt to prevent a USA-iran diaogue? Surely talk is better than war? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/2 "2008-11-06T18:57:10Z")
You say Israel is “cautious” about talks. If Israel does not have a seat at the table (which they will not) they will be concerned what the US may deal away on Israel’s behalf. I’d be a little worried about that too. Having your future in someone else’s hands is not a comfortable position. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/3 "2008-11-06T19:44:22Z")
Seems to me that Israel exists at the pleasure of her allies. Maybe I just don’t ‘get it’ but if Israel can’t fend off the Muslim hordes alone, whence the gall to make recommendations with regard to US foreign policy that don’t begin with the phrase: “Please, kind benefactors, a moment of your precious time, please?” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/4 "2008-11-06T19:54:22Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Seems to me that Israel exists at the pleasure of her allies. > > Maybe I just don’t ‘get it’ but if Israel can’t fend off the Muslim hordes alone, whence the gall to make recommendations with regard to US foreign policy that don’t begin with the phrase: “Please, kind benefactors, a moment of your precious time, please?” The premise is false. Check on when Israel became a nation and when Israel achieved close ties with the US. Israel has, historically, been able to “fend off the Muslim hordes” alone - but through some rather destructive wars. Now they have nukes, but they also make an excellent target for nukes - a war between nuclear armed Israel and Iran would not be good for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Cowboy8467](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Cowboy8467](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowboy8467)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/5 "2008-11-06T20:14:09Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The premise is false. Check on when Israel became a nation and when Israel achieved close ties with the US. > > Israel has, historically, been able to “fend off the Muslim hordes” alone - but through some rather destructive wars. Now they have nukes, but they also make an excellent target for nukes - a war between nuclear armed Israel and Iran would not be good for anyone. Those wars haven’t been destructive to anyone but Israel’s opponents. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves and the US would be much better off if we treated them like any other country and got rid of this stupid unconditional aid that we give them. I just finished reading _The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy_ and I have to highly recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/6 "2008-11-06T20:24:36Z")
I think that Israel fears that if the US and Iran somehow get on speaking terms that there will be less of a chance of “someone” taking out Iran’s nuclear facilities… assuming that’s even possible. If the US drops its overtly hostile stance towards Iran Israel can’t very well bomb them and expect to stay in the US’s good graces… although the US may simply look the other way. Most Americans don’t view Iran as much of a threat to them, but Israel realizes that Iran with nukes could easily wipe it off the map so it feels much more threatened. Iran might strike a peace deal with the US and then declare war on Israel and call our bluff. Would the US then retaliate by leveling Tehran? I find it interesting that the US has no problem with Israel having nukes but it is scared to death of arab countries having the same thing. If you were an arab country how would that make you feel? Can the US really be considered an honest power broker with such a blatent double standard? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/7 "2008-11-06T20:25:43Z")
> [@Cowboy8467](#): > > Those wars haven’t been destructive to anyone but Israel’s opponents. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves and the US would be much better off if we treated them like any other country and got rid of this stupid unconditional aid that we give them. I just finished reading _The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy_ and I have to highly recommend it. I disagree that the wars have only been destructive of their opponents. Clearly Israel won them, but often at heavy loss of life. There is a middle ground between ‘Israel exists only at the sufferance of allies’ and ‘Israel needs no allies, it can stomp over the Arabs any time it feels like’. The situation remains dangerous, and made moreso by the intoduction of nukes. It is in everyone’s interest, and not only that of the combatants, to actively discourage war in the ME - particularly given the West’s heavy reliance on the resources from this region. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/8 "2008-11-06T21:20:37Z")
I guess I don’t understand-Ahmadinejad’s second in command is being impeached. Iran’s economy is collapsing (inflation \>30% per year), and the Iranian people are fed up with the mullahs. Why not engage the opposition (in Iran)? For all its flaws, there is dissent allowed in Iran-and the latest drop in oil prices might well be the straw that breaks the camel’s back! Obama could look like a hero-if he could pull off negotiations with Tehran. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/9 "2008-11-06T21:59:47Z")
> [@Cowboy8467](#): > > Those wars haven’t been destructive to anyone but Israel’s opponents. Even if that were true, that was then. Now they have nukes. Imagine a nuclear conflict in the Middle East and then explain to me the outcome that is only destructive to Israel and/or Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/10 "2008-11-06T22:05:25Z")
Well, considering the relative competence with which Israel and her neighbors conduct wars it goes something like: If Israel starts it, it would only be destructive to Iran. If Iran starts it, it would still only be destructive to Iran because the Israeli intelligence machine will see it coming and nuke Iran’s launchers. ---
**Author:** ![Cowboy8467](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Cowboy8467](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowboy8467)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/11 "2008-11-06T23:03:55Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Even if that were true, that was then. Now they have nukes. Imagine a nuclear conflict in the Middle East and then explain to me the outcome that is only destructive to Israel and/or Iran. Oh I know, I’m strictly referring to all of the previous wars that Israel has fought against her Arab neighbors. Regardless of that Israel should not be counseling us on how to deal with Iran, our country would be safer if we dealt with them pragmatically. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/12 "2008-11-07T01:48:55Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I don’t get it: israel WANTS a hostile and isolated iran? What good is that? Israel cannot destroy iran’s uranium enrichment plants-they are too far away, too numerous, and too well-defended. So why attempt to prevent a USA-iran diaogue? > Surely talk is better than war? It refers to Obama’s “early” talks with Iraq. I would imagine it’s a message not to play president until he’s president because there are events in motion. Just a wag. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/13 "2008-11-07T01:54:53Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I think that Israel fears that if the US and Iran somehow get on speaking terms that there will be less of a chance of “someone” taking out Iran’s nuclear facilities… assuming that’s even possible. If the US drops its overtly hostile stance towards Iran Israel can’t very well bomb them and expect to stay in the US’s good graces… although the US may simply look the other way. This. Israel wants America to continue acting as it’s pet thug, taking the blame and the casualties and spending the money to fight Israel’s enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/14 "2008-11-07T05:41:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This. Israel wants America to continue acting as it’s pet thug, taking the blame and the casualties and spending the money to fight Israel’s enemies. You could make just the opposite claim and be right. Israel has waged a proxy war in the region without any US troops involved. Let’s say for example, that in 2 weeks they take the bunker busters we sold them and use the training from their joint exercise with Turkey to encourage Iran to find a new hobby. Both interests are served. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-cautions-obama-against-early-talks-with-iran/471491/15 "2008-11-07T05:53:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You could make just the opposite claim and be right. Israel has waged a proxy war in the region without any US troops involved. > > Let’s say for example, that in 2 weeks they take the bunker busters we sold them and use the training from their joint exercise with Turkey to encourage Iran to find a new hobby. Both interests are served. Not really. Nothing short of conquering or laying waste to Iran is going to stop them. And Israel is in the region and an easier target. And as I understand it, bunker busters aren’t good enough anyway; the Iranians long ago hardened and dispersed their nuclear facilities. You’d need either an invasion force, possibly a massive bombing campaign, or nukes.