It is only empty ignorance that can such statements be made. the economies of the neighbours of Israel have no thing to do with Israel and countries as Syrie and Egypte were of import to the europeans before any oil was pumped from the Gulf. The gross ignorance of so many americans that imagines all of the reigon is Saudi arabia is just ignorance. Egypte of course shall e important for the Suez for as long as their is international commerce and shipping.
It is the arabs who care very greatly about this, and that includes the christian arabes who have no love at all for the Israelis.
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Americans are not the west and there is no strategic rationale for supporting the israelis, it comes from other things.
your suspecting does not have anything to do with the reality of where the container routes go.
What’s your source that it’s “common knowledge”? Pretty much everything I’ve seen on the issue (which is very little) has said that because of divergent birth rates Israel would be majority Muslim within 50 years, and I was under the impression that was simple demographic math.
If you’re saying that’s the equivalent of being a climate denier, so be it – cite your sources.
Generally speaking you sound pretty torqued about the whole thing. Is this some sort of ongoing flamewar around here or something, or is this your “thing”? If so, hey, vaya con Dios, I’m just a layman.
Honest question: do container routes still go through there if the world runs on sugarcane and honey? Is it simply a matter of location, location, location, or is the majority of traffic either a primary or secondary effect of the oil industry?
Even better, is this (the post-oil counterfactual) the point of divergence of interests between Europe and the US? Would Europe care (a lot) while the US became focused on the Pacific? If so I can definitely see your point that “the West” would still care just as much about the Middle East, though US interest would wane.
I’m not PREDICTING anything. Do you seriously not understand the difference between what I see as the hypothetical only way to break the stalemate and what I think the Israelis will actually DO within my lifetime, at least? I’ve already posted that the only reason I say that it’s the Israelis in my hypothetical is because they have, for at least the foreseeable future, the overwhelming advantage in military hardware and general technology. If that particular criterion had been longstanding reversed, I would have had it as the Palestinians doing it to the Israelis.
Why not expand the options: they might be like Pakistan, or India. They might be really lucky and be more like Britain, Canada, Australia, or the U.S. There are (somewhat) multi-cultural countries that actually do support civil rights for religious minorities.
When I look in the crystal ball and see the future, I see a Palestinian State, propped up by petrodollars, locked in a diplomatic feud with Israel, pretty much forever. Now and then things will heat up, and there will be an exchange of rockets and missiles. Now and then, things will cool down again, and there will be negotiations. The world’s opinion will swing one way then another, but never so far as to be decisive. There won’t be any significant military alliance for, or against, either country.
And, just for the record, you DID bring blood libel into it. The bolded part of the quote is the literal DEFINITION of blood libel. The allusion to poisoning wells was also a nice touch. Got any other medieval slanders against the Jews to accuse me of?
It s not very difficult to look at a globe to understand this has not one thingto do with petroleum, but distance and directness and it only becomes more important to increase the efficiency of the transportation if there is less oil.
it is only the americans who have the israel-centred vision of the region.
Actually, Arab Israelis only make up about 20% according to Israel’s last census. Now even if you count all of the other non-Jewish others who are citizens I don’t think you get to 25%.
That said, thank you for conceding that you claim that Israel would soon become “majority Muslim” since as you now admit Muslims aren’t remotely close to that.
Ah, just noticed your join date and combined with some other comments you’ve made I’d have to conclude it’s pointless to continue debating since outside of the pit I can’t speak honestly.
So, apparently the Palestinians on the West Bank and in Gaza have been seriously overstating their population number (allegedly to be able to gain more aid from the EU), and the birth rate of Muslims inside Israel quickly declining whereas the Jewish birth rate is supposed to be increasing. And then there is the steady immigration. Europe is increasingly becoming an unpleasant place for Jews. I expect to see a steadily increasing exodus of European Jews over the next few decades. Many of whom will move to Israel. But these are short term changes. Who knows how it’ll look in a hundred or two hundred years. Israel is still a very young nation (& much younger that the Crusader States of the Holy Land were). I usually don’t take a country serious unless they have proven their staying will, and have three or four centuries to their name.
But anyway, Ryan asked for a termination. The only way conflicts like these end is if one part is destroyed, or both parts decide they have something better to do. How did the Roman and Celtic conflicts end? The Celts were destroyed. How did the Roman and Punic conflict end? Carthage was destroyed. How did the French-English conflict end? They decided they couldn’t be bothered anymore. How did the Cold War end? The Soviet Union was destroyed / the East Block decided they could be bothered anymore. Since the Arabs are so overwhelming many more, I think the best guess in the near future (50 years) for an end is if Israel is destroyed. But since Israel has nuclear weapons and second strike capabilities, only a suicidal nation would attack. A nuclear suicide attack, perhaps by a crazy Millennialist Mullah in Iran, or Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq, Pakistan, or wherever. Perhaps a terrorist. Otherwise the Arab nations are entering the modern world. Supposedly at some point they’ll also choose secular values, and decide not to care so much about Israel as how to make their own life more comfortable.
This is not true and is mostly seen in europe as the argument of hte anti-muslim extreme right bigots who attempt to exploit jewish pretexts for their own purposes.
Wow, that’s *not *the sort of BS rhetorical gamesmanship I expected from here. But as you say, I’m new, and I may have overestimated the forum. Lesson learned.
Dude, it was meant to illustrate the absurdity of your claim. The point was that you think the Israelis will engage in genocide but you’d find it absurd they’d use Palestinian blood as Matzoh. That’s also why I include the reference to death camps. Same with the poisoning of the wells to sterilize Arab males which was something that many Palestinians on the West Bank feared. You may view those as medieval absurdities, but to many smart, well-meaning Palestinians they are things to fear.
My point was that predicting Israelis will engage in genocide is as ridiculous as predicting killing them for Matzoh. Doing so doesn’t make you evil or even necessarily stupid. Just wrong.
Now, you explicitly predict the Israelis will engage in a “non-official genocide”.
Now, you seem to regret your claim. I’d recommend withdrawing it.
When the UK and France are about the LEAST anti-Semitic countries in Europe and 40% of British citizens think the British Jews are “more loyal to Israel than the UK” and the same is true of French citizens regarding French Jews, wouldn’t you agree that anti-Semitism is an issue?
Now, that doesn’t mean it’s comparable to Nazi Germany or modern day Jordan, but it’s clearly something to be concerned about?
Actually it is probably true. We already have had Jewish flight from Sweden to Denmark for some time. But also in Copenhagen there are many areas that are not safe to enter with recognisable Jewish insignia. I’m certainly glad that I’m not Jewish having to live in Copenhagen. The Jewish school looks like a fortress, and supposedly they even have to arrange their children birthday parties under some security. I believe there was also a noticeable rise in the Jewish emigration from France following the latest terror attack against a Jewish school – or perhaps it was after the abduction and torture of the Jewish boy I read it. Anyway It is true that Jewish organisations mostly say that there is no problem. Which is the reason I really don’t care either way. I still believe there’ll be a growing flow of Jews leaving Europe the next several decades.
You aren’t making any sense here: the guy isn’t making claims from choice or preference. He is (as I was) looking into his own personal crystal ball, and telling us what he sees. It isn’t a “claim” in any concrete way. And he “regrets” what he sees, just as anyone in 1930, forseeing WWII, would “regret” it. Seeing Auschwitz and Hiroshima about to happen, any sane person would regret it; but if they honestly did foresee it, why the hell should they “withdraw” it? It isn’t as if they are acting in any way to cause it to happen.
No, I’m not. He predicted Israel would engage in genocide and later tried to deny predicting it.
Sorry, but if you think Israel is going to engage in genocide then yes, you think Israel is going to follow in Hitler’s footsteps.
I merely called him on it, pointed to the absurdity of the claim and he’s reacted badly to being called on it and desperately trying to hand wave it away.