# Israel invades Gaza Strip?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434 "2006-06-28T02:13:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/261 "2006-07-13T11:36:48Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I don’t agree. We’ve seen similar situations there for quite some time. The point was there is a new element: new representative governments, even under the control of extremists, I would not assume automatically that they are a monolith and deserve the same fate as the ones that foolishly attack Israel. > [@](#): > > I doubt that the US will cease to support Israel but I suppose we’ll see. As we don’t even want to admit that the Iraq war is going poorly, at all, it’ll be hard to start a diplomatic shoving match if we can’t even have a complaint without tarnishing the rosy image of Iraq. 😉 I’m not under any illusions, but in an election year, the White House would insist (Not now, but recklessly later) to keep the pretense at the expense of pressuring Israel. > [@](#): > > That’s what is being dealt with. Hamas’ stronghold of Gaza is under seige, the Syrians were warned that military action might include them as well, and then the Lebanese backed Hezbollah terrorist organization executed another attack upon Israel. Their attack was directed to a military target, I am once again not approving of it, but pointing out that that plays into the world’s opinion. > [@](#): > > Personally, I don’t think that Iraq will become much more of an issue. It’s already in a state of civil war, having Israel do some stuff won’t, IMO, change things all that much. As for demanding anything of Lebanon… eh. State sponsors of terror have, as this thread has shown, more than their fair share of apologists. He who battles monsters must beware, lest a monster he become. - Nietze It is a given, even for me, that the terrorists are monsters, but Israel is playing right now into their hands. > [@](#): > > All Lebanon would have to do is say “Oh… those terrorists? Who we train, lodge, finance, equip, and help direct? Never seen 'em before.” And then even I would have demanded Bush to send troops to support Israel, don’t you see what Israel missed here? BTW I am not talking about the past governments of Lebanon, even under a cloud of suspicion, one needed to give them some time to deal with their terrorists (I’m not under any illusions, I am only mentioning the opportunity that was missed on not making them wholly responsible for this mess to the eyes of the world) > [@](#): > > I’m also not sure what ammount of time should be taken once one country essentially starts a war with another. Let alone when the third does it. Right now I’m not much worried about actions that are justified, only that many in Israel are not realising a justified action can turn quickly into unjustified depending on the actions on the field. (what would happen if in reality the governments had no control on the recent actions of the terrorists?) > [@](#): > > Perhaps… but to a degree if that’s what Hezbollah wanted, that’s what Lebanon wanted. :dubious: How much power has Hezbollah with only one minister? All the other members of the parliament condemned the action of Hezbollah. Realizing that In 2005 The anti-Syrian opposition captured control of Lebanon’s parliament makes your point here even more dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Dottygumdrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Dottygumdrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dottygumdrop)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/262 "2006-07-13T12:02:57Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I doubt that the US will cease to support Israel but I suppose we’ll see. As we don’t even want to admit that the Iraq war is going poorly, at all, it’ll be hard to start a diplomatic shoving match if we can’t even have a complaint without tarnishing the rosy image of Iraq. 😉 I don’t want to get in the middle of _this_ shoving match, or hijack the debate, but even Israel’s direct attack on the [USS](http://www.rense.com/general39/pilot.htm) [Liberty](http://www.ussliberty.org/) during the 1967 war didn’t disrupt American support for Israel, so I don’t think a few “surgical” attacks on Lebanese and Palestinian “agitators” will ruffle any US feathers. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/263 "2006-07-13T12:05:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Their attack was directed to a military target, I am once again not approving of it, but pointing out that that plays into the world’s opinion. Which attacks do you mean? the _Qassams_ falling in Sderot and Ashkelon? Or do you mean the _Katyushas_ which fell, already yesterday morning **before** Israel crossed the border into Lbeanon, on Israeli towns in the North? 😕 > [@](#): > > (what would happen if in reality the governments had no control on the recent actions of the terrorists?) You know that bridge we were talking about? It’s really a good price. You should buy it now, before somebody else beats you to it… 😉 > [@](#): > > :dubious: How much power has Hezbollah with only one minister? All the other members of the parliament condemned the action of Hezbollah. I ask in all seriousness – Cite? I know exactly the opposite – that both the Lebanese Parliament and Armed Forces have stood behind Hezbollah in this case. But I accept that I may have missed something in trying to follow the news. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/264 "2006-07-13T12:31:49Z")
I’ll start with this one: > [@GIGObuster](#): > > :dubious: How much power has Hezbollah with only one minister? All the other members of the parliament condemned the action of Hezbollah. Realizing that In 2005 The anti-Syrian opposition captured control of Lebanon’s parliament makes your point here even more dubious. How much power do they have? Enough for terrorist training camps, weapons, financing, safe harbor, etc… Does it matter if only one minister wears their hat if the entire country dances to their tune? Lebanon’s recent refusal to deny Hezbollah funding, claiming that they weren’t terrorists, surely wasn’t the work of a lone official, was it? How much power do they have? Should we look at the actual support they’re getting, or the rhetoric the government is giving us? And, a cite as to them having only one representative or backer in Parliment? We’ve got a cite from CNN in this thread saying that Hezbollah holds “posts” in the Lebanese government. Of course, though, that is academic to a degree as pointed out above. It’d be nice to get at the truth of the matter… > [@GIGObuster](#): > > The point was there is a new element: new representative governments, even under the control of extremists, I would not assume automatically that they are a monolith and deserve the same fate as the ones that foolishly attack Israel. Well, it doesn’t matter if they’re monolithic or not. If the US launched a war, our entire country would be fair game for reprisals, and not just Republicans. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Their attack was directed to a military target, I am once again not approving of it, but pointing out that that plays into the world’s opinion. Eh. The world’s opinion has been so solidly anti-Israel in the past that I’m sure most Sabras couldn’t care less. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is a given, even for me, that the terrorists are monsters, but Israel is playing right now into their hands. Perhaps. You and I evidently differ on the timeframe for a response to an armed attack. Although as Israel has not been targeting civilians, it’s hard to truly say that they’re becoming the monsters that they’re fighting. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And then even I would have demanded Bush to send troops to support Israel, don’t you see what Israel missed here? I don’t agree it missed anything. The reaction would be exactly the same as the world’s reaction to Syria playing dumb. Exemplified, in miniature, by the OP’s agenda in this thread, actually. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > BTW I am not talking about the past governments of Lebanon, even under a cloud of suspicion, one needed to give them some time to deal with their terrorists (I’m not under any illusions, I am only mentioning the opportunity that was missed on not making them wholly responsible for this mess to the eyes of the world) How much time is reasonable to stop funding Hezbollah, stop giving them weapons, close down the terrorist training camps? After enough time, it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that the government’s lack of action is just what it seems. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Right now I’m not much worried about actions that are justified, only that many in Israel are not realising a justified action can turn quickly into unjustified depending on the actions on the field. (what would happen if in reality the governments had no control on the recent actions of the terrorists?) Well, if they had no control, which they do in fact have, but if they didn’t, then Israel would be within its rights to invade a lawless region which was spawning terrorists. But it’s not like Lebanon has [changed its stripes to any great degree](http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/65462.pdf). From the Yahoo cite given earlier: > [@](#): > > Lebanon is under U.N. and U.S. pressure to disarm the Shiite guerrilla group and move its own military into the south, but the government has refused to do so, calling Hezbollah a legitimate resistance group. From the CNN cite: > [@](#): > > Lebanon has tried to distance itself from the raid that sparked the most recent hostilities, recalling its ambassador to the United States, Farid Abboud, for making “irresponsible” public comments, said Lebanese Telecommunications Minister Marwan Hamadeh. > > Hamadeh would not divulge the comments. But Abboud appeared to endorse Hezbollah’s call for a prisoner swap during an interview Wednesday with CNN International. > > “We have our prisoners. They have prisoners. An exchange would be appropriate, and I think it will resolve the problem,” Abboud said. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/265 "2006-07-13T12:35:51Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > You know that bridge we were talking about? It’s really a good price. You should buy it now, before somebody else beats you to it… 😉 > > I ask in all seriousness – Cite? I know exactly the opposite – that both the Lebanese Parliament and Armed Forces have stood behind Hezbollah in this case. But I accept that I may have missed something in trying to follow the news. > **[Home](https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en.html)** > > The intelligence, technology, and human expertise you need to find trusted answers. > [@](#): > > BEIRUT, July 12 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said on Wednesday the Lebanese government did not condone a cross-border Hizbollah attack against Israel. [http://beirutspring.blogspot.com/2005/06/new-parliament.html](http://beirutspring.blogspot.com/2005/06/new-parliament.html) 72 members anti-Syrian. 21 members independent or pro-Syrian 35 Pro Syrian-Amal (14 of then Hezbollah) I’m not clear on the minister positions but some sources now mention that there are actually 2 Hezbollah ministers and many in parliament do see them as troublemakers. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/266 "2006-07-13T13:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > BEIRUT, July 12 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said on Wednesday the Lebanese government did not condone a cross-border Hizbollah attack against Israel. :rolleyes: So saying “[they] did not condone” is now a form of condemnation? :rolleyes: Seriously, I guess it’s a little bit better than outright support for Hizballah, but on the whole it’s really pretty much just another facet of the Lebanese government’s “Three Monkeys” act. And thanks for ignoring my questions about your assertion how all the attacks were on military targets… remember this bit? > [@Noone Special](#): > > > [@GIGObuster](#): > > > > Their attack was directed to a military target, I am once again not approving of it, but pointing out that that plays into the world’s opinion. > > Which attacks do you mean? the Qassams falling in Sderot and Ashkelon? Or do you mean the Katyushas which fell, already yesterday morning before Israel crossed the border into Lbeanon, on Israeli towns in the North? talk about honest debating! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/267 "2006-07-13T13:17:09Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > How much power do they have? Enough for terrorist training camps, weapons, financing, safe harbor, etc… Does it matter if only one minister wears their hat if the entire country dances to their tune? Lebanon’s recent refusal to deny Hezbollah funding, claiming that they weren’t terrorists, surely wasn’t the work of a lone official, was it? > > How much power do they have? Should we look at the actual support they’re getting, or the rhetoric the government is giving us? > > And, a cite as to them having only one representative or backer in Parliment? > We’ve got a cite from CNN in this thread saying that Hezbollah holds “posts” in the Lebanese government. Of course, though, that is academic to a degree as pointed out above. It’d be nice to get at the truth of the matter… > **[Politics of Lebanon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Lebanon)** > > Member State of the Arab League >  Lebanon portal > Lebanon is a parliamentary democratic republic within the overall framework of confessionalism, a form of consociationalism in which the highest offices are proportionately reserved for representatives from certain religious communities. The constitution of Lebanon grants the people the right to change their government. However, from the mid-1970s until the parliamentary elections in 1992, the Lebanese Civil War (1975–1990) precluded the exerci... > [@](#): > > Lebanon has numerous political parties, but they play a much less significant role in Lebanese politics than they do in most parliamentary democracies. Many of the “parties” are simply lists of candidates endorsed by a prominent national or local figure. Loose coalitions, usually organized locally, are formed for electoral purposes by negotiation among clan leaders and candidates representing various religious communities; such coalitions usually exist only for the election, and rarely form a cohesive bloc in the Parliament after the election. No single party has ever won more than 12.5 percent of the seats in the Parliament, and no coalition of parties has won more than 35 percent. Link has verification of the Blog graphic. > [@](#): > > Well, it doesn’t matter if they’re monolithic or not. If the US launched a war, our entire country would be fair game for reprisals, and not just Republicans. Since the latest I remember from Lebanon was most of the government asking Syria to get out, I really do wonder were you get this “fair” game idea. > [@](#): > > Eh. The world’s opinion has been so solidly anti-Israel in the past that I’m sure most Sabras couldn’t care less. And you are working towards making a fence sitter like me lose respect. You may not care, but I still care when government (or is it the media in Israel?) is not telling me the whole truth when war is happening. > [@](#): > > Perhaps. You and I evidently differ on the timeframe for a response to an armed attack. Although as Israel has not been targeting civilians, it’s hard to truly say that they’re becoming the monsters that they’re fighting. They call the strikes surgical, collateral dammage still shows. > [@](#): > > I don’t agree it missed anything. The reaction would be exactly the same as the world’s reaction to Syria playing dumb. Exemplified, in miniature, by the OP’s agenda in this thread, actually. I thought we were talking about Lebanon now. > [@](#): > > How much time is reasonable to stop funding Hezbollah, stop giving them weapons, close down the terrorist training camps? After enough time, it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that the government’s lack of action is just what it seems. Never assign to malice what incompetence can explain. > [@](#): > > Well, if they had no control, which they do in fact have, but if they didn’t, then Israel would be within its rights to invade a lawless region which was spawning terrorists. I was going to say Yes. Until I checked the current targets. > [@](#): > > But it’s not like Lebanon has [changed its stripes to any great degree](http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/65462.pdf). [QUOTE=United States Department of State Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism] Because the Government of Lebanon does not exercise effective control over areas in the south and inside the Palestinian refugee camps, terrorists can operate relatively freely in those areas. [/QUOTE] > **[Israel Blockades, Bombs Lebanon While Hezbollah Rains Rocket Fire](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/13/AR2006071300278.html)** > > DAMOUR, Lebanon, July 14 -- Israel imposed a blockade on Lebanon by land, sea and air on Thursday, striking the capital's airport twice, cutting off its ports and wrecking bridges and roads in attacks that killed at least 47 people in the last two... > [@](#): > > Israeli warplanes bombed Beirut’s airport and a Hezbollah television station early Thursday, then imposed a blockade on Lebanon’s ports and air space, That is not “just the south” when you look at the map. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/268 "2006-07-13T13:28:30Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > :rolleyes: So saying “[they] did not condone” is now a form of condemnation? :rolleyes: Seriously, I guess it’s a little bit better than outright support for Hizballah, but on the whole it’s really pretty much just another facet of the Lebanese government’s “Three Monkeys” act. > > And thanks for ignoring my questions about your assertion how all the attacks were on military targets… remember this bit? > > talk about honest debating! I said “Their attack” referring to the one that killed the soldiers, saying “attacks” and implying that I ignored those **is** dishonest. Posted early: > [@](#): > > Simultaneously, Katyusha rockets were fired at Israeli villages and army posts in the area, injuring five civilians in what appears to have been a diversionary ploy. And I also mentioned that guys who perform terror moves like this deserve to be killed. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/269 "2006-07-13T13:52:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I said “Their attack” referring to the one that killed the soldiers, saying “attacks” and implying that I ignored those **is** dishonest. > > Posted early: > > And I also mentioned that guys who perform terror moves like this deserve to be killed. So, you’re referring **just** to the latest eruption on the lebanese front? And of that, you prefer to focus **only** on the part of the attack that targeted soldiers and dismiss the (simultaneous) rocket attacks on civilians as a “mere” diversonary ploy? OK, whatever… Kind of looks like you’re missing the main issue here, as far as we Israelis are concerned, just as so many people seem to be missing the point that the situation in Gaza was finally _triggered_ by the kidnapping of Shalit, but had been smoldering for months before due to **hundreds** of Qassam rockets fired from the PA-controlled territory into Israel proper, since the disengagement last year. But hey, don’t let a little misunderstanding of the basic facts on the ground stop you… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/270 "2006-07-13T13:54:42Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > :rolleyes: So saying “[they] did not condone” is now a form of condemnation? :rolleyes: Seriously, I guess it’s a little bit better than outright support for Hizballah, but on the whole it’s really pretty much just another facet of the Lebanese government’s “Three Monkeys” act. On this item I see you are right, the article I read does mention condemnation later (to Israel, big surprise ( :rolleyes: to the Lebanese) ) and I got confused, but to the actions of Israel. Still, other reports do mention that Hezballah has a parliament position because it was supposed to be the civil wing of Hezballah, not the military part, IIRC A chance was missed recently to keep them out when parliament decided to investigate some connections Hezballah had with some of the recent high profile killings in Lebanon, Hezballah reportedly stepped down in protest, but there was some diplomatic moves to keep them in government. Even I see that was a mistake, but it goes towards showing that the idea that all of Lebanon is “fair game” to be a mistake in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/271 "2006-07-13T14:03:34Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > So, you’re referring **just** to the latest eruption on the lebanese front? And of that, you prefer to focus **only** on the part of the attack that targeted soldiers and dismiss the (simultaneous) rocket attacks on civilians as a “mere” diversonary ploy? OK, whatever… Kind of looks like you’re missing the main issue here, as far as we Israelis are concerned, just as so many people seem to be missing the point that the situation in Gaza was finally _triggered_ by the kidnapping of Shalit, but had been smoldering for months before due to **hundreds** of Qassam rockets fired from the PA-controlled territory into Israel proper, since the disengagement last year. > But hey, don’t let a little misunderstanding of the basic facts on the ground stop you… :rolleyes: It does not, are you saying Israel **never** shot back when the terrorists shot rockets from the North? If you are honest, you will realize that I did not complain on Israel’s attacking Gaza, where most of the rocket attacks came since disengagement. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/272 "2006-07-13T14:12:20Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > It does not, are you saying Israel **never** shot back when the terrorists shot rockets from the North? If you are honest, you will realize that I did not complain on Israel’s attacking Gaza, where most of the rocket attacks came since disengagement. I’m complaining about this: > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Their attack was directed to a military target… Unconditional. “It was directed to a military target.” Well, as you yourself admitted later, “it” wasn’t exactly directed **only** at a military target. But hey, attacking civilians as a “diversionary tactic” is OK if you’re fighting **against** Israel. But if you **are** Israel, then hitting civilians _while targetting legitimate military targets, that have just attacked you on your sovereign territory, and are purposely hiding among said civilians_ suddenly becomes the epitome of inhumanity. No, no double standard at work here; nothing to see; move along… Not to mention – even if the target **had** been military, last I checked, attacking a sovereign nation’s **military** force, on it’s own territory, out of the blue with no provocation [and the Lebanese front was completely quiet until now] is pretty much the **definition** of _Casus belli_ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/273 "2006-07-13T15:03:09Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > I’m complaining about this: > > Unconditional. “It was directed to a military target.” Well, as you yourself admitted later, “it” wasn’t exactly directed **only** at a military target. But hey, attacking civilians as a “diversionary tactic” is OK if you’re fighting **against** Israel. But if you **are** Israel, then hitting civilians _while targetting legitimate military targets, that have just attacked you on your sovereign territory, and are purposely hiding among said civilians_ suddenly becomes the epitome of inhumanity. No, no double standard at work here; nothing to see; move along… > > Not to mention – even if the target **had** been military, last I checked, attacking a sovereign nation’s **military** force, on it’s own territory, out of the blue with no provocation [and the Lebanese front was completely quiet until now] is pretty much the **definition** of _Casus belli_ Furious tap dancing time from you, I already think Palestine got their just deserts and Israel needed to defend itself, hundreds of attacks and the Palestinians showed to be incompetent and complicit. It just seems you are so irate that you still are not noticing that I agree with most of the actions of Israel there. Lebanon’s attact came from an area not under the control of the Lebanese government, it is dubiuous that the government in Lebanon ordered the attack, Even so, I would be willing to accept a clean up of the south of Lebanon, but that is not what I see Israel doing, I have to call the lack of focus a mistake, even if I consider myself on the whole a friend of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/274 "2006-07-13T15:09:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It just seems you are so irate that you still are not noticing that I agree with most of the actions of Israel there. Possibly. Make that Probably. Maybe it’s time to step back from the keyboard a bit. > [@](#): > > Lebanon’s attact came from an area not under the control of the Lebanese government, it is dubiuous that the government in Lebanon ordered the attack Eh, you still interested in that bridge? 🙂 Look, Hizballah is **in** the freaking **government**. Do you really, honestly think that the big muck-mucks in Lebanon **didn’t** know something was brewing? OK, I guess you really do. Sorry, but I just don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/275 "2006-07-13T15:15:41Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > Possibly. Make that Probably. Maybe it’s time to step back from the keyboard a bit. > > Eh, you still interested in that bridge? 🙂 Look, Hizballah is **in** the freaking **government**. Do you really, honestly think that the big muck-mucks in Lebanon **didn’t** know something was brewing? OK, I guess you really do. Sorry, but I just don’t agree. Wrongo again, I do suspect the bastards of Hizballah knew something, but ignoring that a good chuck of parliament (The majority really) is against Syria and had Zidanne like headbutts against Hizbalah in Parliament I still don’t swallow the idea all of Lebanon deserves what is happening. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/276 "2006-07-13T15:21:12Z")
Besides, I based the assertion that the government of Lebanon has little or no control of the south on what the US intelligence report said. Although I could accept the point that the sorry recent examples of American intelligence could mean that the US “owned” all the destroyed bridges, if you catch my drift. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/277 "2006-07-13T17:00:12Z")
Gigo, you’d have a point if Lebanon stated that the south of its country was not under its sovereign rule. If that was the case - if Beirut ws claiming that South Lebanon was not a part of Lebanon - then maybe we wouldn’t have the right to attack them. However, they are saying no such thing. The attacks came from territory they claim is their property, and as such they are responsible for whatever happens, even if they did not approve of it. Here’s an analogy: say that the McDonalds Corporation gave one of its trucks to a known alcholic and drug abuser, with no licence and a history of multiple vehicular homicides, whi then went out and ran over a kindergarten class. Would the MacDonad Corp be open to civil and criminal charges? Even though they did not plan on killing anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/278 "2006-07-13T17:18:55Z")
O…K. According to the [YNet](http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3275186,00.html) site (Hebrew language – but expect this to hit your favorite English language news source soon) , a Hizballah rocket has just hit Haifa. Right or wrong, fair or not, justified or not, I think Hizballah has just stamped Lebanon’s ticket on a one-way trip back into the stone age. And no, I’m not happy about this; just realistic. Hitting Haifa **has** to be met with such force that _no_ Arab country will ever let it happen from their territory again. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/279 "2006-07-13T17:23:21Z")
[Here](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060713/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_rocket_attack;_ylt=AseR2Dk0zvmUiG1MQHpqudCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--) it is in English > [@AP on Yahoo](#): > > Two rockets fired by Lebanese guerrillas hit the northern port city of Haifa on Thursday, but no one was injured, authorities said. ---
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434/280 "2006-07-13T17:27:50Z")
I think everyone is going to get effed in the A, eventually. Much sooner than later, as in anyone who says “not in my lifetime” will find a harsh reality waiting for them right around the corner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-invades-gaza-strip/362434.md?page=15)