Why was Israel trying to make nice with SA anyway? I mean, what did SA have to offer them? Serious question.
In the 60s, 70,s 80s, the African and MidEast States were used as pawns in the Cold War. They were also used as pawns in the wars Israel and SA were fighting. I think I am correct in saying both Israel and SA were Capitalist Republics with common enemies.
Money for arms. Most countries had an arms embargo on South Africa, and South Africa was willing to pay a lot of money for Israeli weapons.
Add to that that most of the countries of Africa had broken diplomatic ties with Israel in the 1970s, that the Soviet Union was providing material support to both Arab states and the PLO against Israel and the ANC and Namibian rebels against South Africa, that both countries were largely diplomatically isolated in the 1970s and diplomats get lonely, and that South Africa has a substantial Jewish population.
Did Israel sell nuke warheads to SA in the mid 70s? If they did, why would SA have a program to produce warheads in the 80s? I think it is all bs. I think maybe Israel had talks that never bore fruit. So Israel sold no nuke weapons.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that Israel actually sold nukes to SA, only that they offered to do so.
What, they can’t want more? They can’t want the ability to make their own rather than just buying? In the 80s how many nukes did the US have? England? Wouldn’t South Africa’s six kinda pale in comparison?
Now I don’t know if Israel did or did not sell (at the moment), but to say “oh they can’t have because SA wanted more” is kinda stupid don’t you think?
Ah…so because everyone else is anti semite and agin poor little Israel, you get to break arms embargos and treaties and deal with what at the time was considered an international outcast. And its all everyone elses fault because they let those nasty terrorists attack Israel and secretly want to see you wiped from the map.
Got it.
Thanks for the clarificiation
Wow, it’s almost as if you read my post and then responded with venom that had nothing to do with it. Uncanny.
From a statement of what caused the events and an explicit comment about how dealing with SA was morally reprehensible, you fabricate claims about how everybody is an anti-semite and the nations who had just waged a third war of extermination were simply “terrorists”. Deceptive distortions are not, in fact, “clarifications”.
Just in case you’d like to drop the gamesmanship here, why don’t you address the actual realpolitik considerations that we could expect to result from a nation that’s backed into a corner while defending itself from repeated wars of extermination, even if those actions are morally suspect.
What is it with you and Fox? Every thread I’ve read today that you’ve posted in, you slam Fox. If you’ve got such a problem with Fox, stop watching it! It’s not hard! I’ve never seen Fox, because I stopped watching TV several years before Fox started broadcasting. I quit the TV habit back in '93. Trust me, you won’t miss it…, and you’ll probably feel better if you give up the habit. I do…
It’s about how horrible and bad and dumb Americans are because they have a news channel that caters to conservatives. Of course, the OP has also cited Iran’s state-run propaganda service so his opposition to Fox seems… inconsistent.
I was going to lay into the OP over what he’s actually spewing about, but refrained, because it’s “old news”. I see here that someone else didn’t refrain. OP FYI: Old news. No-one who pays attention to this kind of thing is suprised. And, it grossly predates “cable television”, let alone “Fox News”. Seriously, you should think about quitting the television habit. It might help you get over your obsession with “Fox News”… :rolleyes:
Or it’s just another rant thread complete with “why didn’t fox report it” that wasn’t properly researched. If only there was a way of looking up stuff in a giant database that’s free and open to the world.
Well, like I said, the solution is to stop watching the TV idiot box. 
Well, the world outside of Egypt and Iran*.
[ETA: if memory serves, those are, respectively, the country where the OP resides and the country with which the OP is in love.]
*A lot of other places, too, but could you expect me to pass up the straight line?
No. Just…no.
I believe only a little later did SA develop its own. In fact, I always thought the flow of nuclear tech went the other way.
Bullshit - we’re talking about a regime that had no problem with torture, death squads, biological warfare, assassinations on foreign soil. All of which were illegal by their own laws.
No, in fact it’s exactly like tribal warfare and tyranny. Only, one tribe is white, and they’re the tyrants.
I disagree. Large parts of the world (Europe, Australia, NZ, Canada) really don’t suck.
No-one’s said they were the pinnacle, but you sell their evil very short if you try and paint it as just business as usual.
Actually no, I responded that you, as per expected had a justification for it. A justification, that as usual rests on the claim that the rest of the world is against Israel so whatever it does is ok.
Much as I disagree with Alessan, at least he offers reasoned posts and cops to things that are disgraceful, you always have a justification that fully excuses Israel no matter what. And its always a justification that if it wasnt for how tuff, savvy, forward thinking and logical us Israelis are the rest of the world would take the opportunity to exterminate us like the vermin we think they think we are.
Sorry, no, you’re imagining that. I suggest that you google the phrase “morally reprehensible”. Hint: it doesn’t mean “justified”.
You mean the claim that you just made up that has nothing to do with what I posted? Yeah…
By the way, I didn’t realize you are an Israeli. You might want to study your country’s history and discover why it is that Israel made the political choices it did during the 1970’s. Or you can continue to get angry about things you’ve imagined I said and refuse to discuss the actual political calculus that was going on. Your call.
Yep those choices were all that stopped the rest of the filthy jew hating world from wiping Israel off the map, we had to sell SA nukes a tells ya, we absolutely had to deal with them nigger hating repressing nationalists and break treaties or we wouldn’t be here. It wasn’t our fault, if the rest of the world was fair to us, we wouldn’t have to do it. And no its not a self fulfilling prophesy when people get angry at Israel. Not at all, everything we did others would have done also. We just did it better sooner and faster. We are right, and if you question what Israel did then you secretly hate jews.
Ok just to provide the quote an all…
“After defending itself from three genocidal wars launched against it and dealing with the Arab boycott as well as substantial international pressure, Israel sought out any allies it could. Of course allying with SA was morally reprehensible **but in context it was a realpolitik decision based on the requirements of survival that were imposed on Israel.” **
I read this as meaning, well we had to do it because the rest of the world was against us.
Nothing was “imposed upon” Israel FinnAgain, it was something abhorrent that they did. It doesn’t have justification other than "we (Israel) can break whatever rules we like because the whole rest of the world is against us. It is a persecution complex mixed with some sort of total arrogance that is now doing a disservice to Israel.
It is acts like this that help to create sympathy for the Palestinians, murdering terrorists that the are, because for all of Israel’s cries of “burt we have to” its becoming very stale and no longer beleived.