# Israel orders jews and christians to fight through the internet **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591 "2006-08-13T22:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/1 "2006-08-13T22:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers > > From Yonit Farago in Jerusalem > > Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chat rooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages. > > In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chat rooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate. [Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2289232.html) will this help Israel’s case ? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/2 "2006-08-13T23:29:08Z")
Are you claiming (in your title) that Israel has ordered Jews and Christians to unite to fight propaganda? Or are you claiming that Israel is attempting to egg on fights between Jews and Christians? Either way, I do not really see where you are getting your claim. The article briefly mentions one small connection to Right-wing Christian groups, but does not indicate that they are taking “orders” from Israel. In fact, the article mentions that there are restrictions on what the government can do, in any event. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/3 "2006-08-13T23:30:01Z")
Well, as [Hezbollah](http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20411-2295889,00.html) is ALREADY doing this I’d say that Israel (and other countries) need to do SOMETHING. > [@](#): > > As the death toll in Lebanon and Israel mounts, the conflict has spilled onto the internet with sudden fury as gangs of computer hackers mount a withering cyber attack on thousands of Israeli and Western websites. > > “This is definitely the biggest ever politically motivated cyber protest we’ve ever seen,” Roberto Preatoni, a founder of [Zone-H.org](http://Zone-H.org), a web-based crime observatory, told me. He said that as many as 10,000 web sites belonging to commercial, government and military web sites may have been caught in the crossfire > > The daily tally of sites being sabotaged is nearly 4,000, twice the normal number, according to Mr Preatoni. About 80 per cent of the attacks involve hackers reacting to the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah, and the overwhelming majority have been directed against Israeli, American and other Western sites, he said. What ‘case’ are you talking about? Whats the debate here exactly? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/4 "2006-08-13T23:54:49Z")
It’s a propaganda effort, but I get the sense the OP used the word “orders” (which seems unconnected to the story) to imply that Israel is fomenting a religious conflict or something like a jihad. Which also doesn’t seem to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/5 "2006-08-14T00:01:05Z")
**Wildfire** MM\*\*, you need to explain what you intended in the OP and where you’d like to see this thread go. Currently, you have a misleading title backed up by a news report indicating that a lot of people on different sides of an issue are all doing the same thing. That is not grounds for a debate and I am not going to dump it into another Forum. Without some clarification, soon, I will probably close this thread. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/6 "2006-08-14T00:12:41Z")
Hardly surprising. Whether recruited or not, you can read any number of ultrapro-Israeli messages (no matter _what_ they do) on this very board. Hopefully – for them – they are getting some sort of reward, monetary or otherwise. It’s beyond biased if they weren’t. Scary thought if so, for they’ve become what they hate…though I can’t say I am overly surprised. Finding the “good guys” in this conflict is a hopeless undertaking. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/7 "2006-08-14T00:16:29Z")
On the off chance the debate is about purported cyber attacks, [here](http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1224273,00.html) is another article on what Hezbollah is up too: > [@](#): > > How Hizballah Hijacks the Internet > The group pops up on unwitting Web sites around the world in order to communicate, recruit and fundraise > > What do a small south Texas cable company, a suburban Virginia cable provider and Web-hosting servers in Delhi, Montreal, Brooklyn and New Jersey have in common? Since fighting broke out in Lebanon, they all have had their communications portals hijacked by Hizballah. Hackers from the militant Lebanese group are trolling the Internet for vulnerable sites to communicate with one another and to broadcast messages from Al-Manar television, which is banned in the U.S. In the cyberterrorism trade it is known as “whack-a-mole” — just like the old carnival game, Hizballah sites pop up, get whacked down and then pop up again somewhere else on the World Wide Web. > [@](#): > > “As the Israelis tighten the noose on Hizballah in Lebanon, these communication nodes become critical,” said Fred Burton, a former U.S. counterterrorism official and now vice president of Stratfor, a security consulting and forecasting company in Austin, Tex. In today’s asymmetrical warfare, the Internet is vital to groups like Hizballah who use it to recruit, raise money, communicate and propagandize, Burton said, including transmissions from Hizballah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah. > > The recent hijacking of a South Texas cable operator is a case study in how Hizballah moves in. The Texas cable company has an agreement with a New York-based satellite communications aggregator, which moves feeds to a variety of customers from throughout the world, including Lebanon. A technician in New York made an “improper connection,” according to an official with the cable company’s communications provider who detailed the hijack for TIME. That opening was detected by Hizballah. If we are talking about something else (or what seems most likely to me, just a drive by rant thread of unknown purpose save to blast Israel), the my apologies. Carry on. -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/8 "2006-08-14T00:18:30Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Hardly surprising. Whether recruited or not, you can read any number of ultrapro-Israeli messages (no matter what they do) on this very board. [/QUOTE] Equally unsurprisingly there are a number of Hezbollah-apologists (no matter what they do) on this very board too! Imagine that Red! 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/9 "2006-08-14T00:43:33Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] On the off chance the debate is about purported cyber attacks, [here](http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1224273,00.html) is another article on what Hezbollah is up too: If we are talking about something else (or what seems most likely to me, just a drive by rant thread of unknown purpose save to blast Israel), the my apologies. Carry on. -XT [/QUOTE] So far as I can tell (not that I’ve put any effort into doing so), the issue is one of astroturfing. Israeli diplos and students are being encouraged to present pro-Israeli views on message boards and in chat rooms. Just a bit of a PR push, can’t see the big deal myself. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/10 "2006-08-14T00:46:48Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] So far as I can tell (not that I’ve put any effort into doing so), the issue is one of astroturfing. Israeli diplos and students are being encouraged to present pro-Israeli views on message boards and in chat rooms. Just a bit of a PR push, can’t see the big deal myself. [/QUOTE] Ah…my bad then. I misunderheard what the OP was getting at obviously. I thought we were talking about a REAL issue…like direct and purposeful attacks on various web sites with the intent of hammering the message out about how good Hezbollah is and how evil Israel is. :smack: I really don’t know what to say about the actual OP so I’ll bow out at this point. Apologies all around. I appreciate the translation though Gorsnak. -XT ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/11 "2006-08-14T01:24:52Z")
From [“The Electronic Intifada”](http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5239.shtml). They are claiming that Israel’s MFA is not ‘ordering’ anybody to do anything, but has provided a link to a private company’s legal and free service, if they want to get involved in debating the issues online. They claim that [this](http://www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=914) is the original missive. If legit, (and it seems to be) it certainly does not seem to be addressed to MFA trainees. [This is the privte website distributing the software.](http://giyus.org/) It appears to be connected with various Zionist organistions, but I see no evidence that it can be ordered to do anything by Israel. Perhaps I’ve missed a fact somewhere… [This](http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+Ministry/Structure+and+departments/Training+in+the+Israel+Ministry+of+Foreign+Affairs.htm) is the website for the Isreali MFA’s trainee policies. I can’t find the word ‘internet’ being used once. [According to CNN](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/03/sitroom.01.html), the group trying to get the word out about Megaphone is the WUJS. The CNN article goes so far as to state: > [@](#): > > JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, the World Union of Jewish Students is a grassroots organization based out of Jerusalem. They’re pushing a new piece of software called the Megaphone to promote pro-Israel messaging on the Internet. You download the software and it sends you alerts throughout the day, about half a dozen of them a day. > > Some of the messaging here is pretty neutral, like send your personal story to CNN, encouraging people to send us their video and images. Others is more targeted language like “Hezbollah, coming soon to a hometown near you.” This is primarily what this stuff is like. > > Now, it encourages you to go vote in polls, to pass around articles, to go watch certain videos, again, all with the idea of promoting Israel on the Internet and attacking Hezbollah. Now, the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs is not behind the project, but they are absolutely endorsing it. It’s been downloaded about 14,000 times so far. They’re encouraging 100,000 people to download it. They even sent out an e-mail to that effect. > > But what’s interesting to note is that anyone can download this software and it’s now gotten into the hands of some south Lebanese bloggers, who are encouraging people to use it to promote Lebanese opinions and Palestinian opinions online instead – Wolf. So, based on my preliminary digging, it would seem that the OP’s point is a fabrication. The Israeli MFA has ordered nobody to do anything as far as I can tell, but they are encouraging private individuals to make use of Megaphone. It seems that the OP was suggesting that there is a Sinister Zionist Conspiracy [sup]tm[/sup], or something of the sort. But there is no evidence that the Israeli MFA is ordering people to do anything, that they are ordering Jews to fight Christians online, or Jews and Christians to fight Arabs online… or anything of the sort. Indeed, I can see nothing that specifically mentions religion, only those who support Israel. Seem rather like a non-story to me, especially compared to some things like the actions of Hezbollah’s PR “director”, Mr. Green Helmet. Also interesting is that Lebanese/Palestinian folks are using Megaphone as well… it doesn’t seem to be much more than a tool for searching the 'net and finding content of a specific sort that someone might be interested in joining in. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/12 "2006-08-14T04:14:46Z")
It does bring up an interesting issue for message boards, however. Leaving the current conflict out of it to prevent people from pointing fingers at current members, as various factions in conflicts become increasingly internet-savvy, it seems likely to me that large boards of this type will be targeted for propaganda operations. It seems like a really good bang-for-your-buck type operation - order a few hundred or a few thousand soldiers or terrorists to spend their off-duty time hitting message boards, blogs, chat boards, and other group communication sites, and pose as various people and either argue for your own side’s case, or more nefariously try to kick off false stories damaging your adversary, which might take hold and run wild on the internet, or pose as citizens of the enemy country who are sympathetic, to get across the notion that they have widespread support. I don’t care what your political beliefs are - if you’re a Liberal you can assume Bush has his neo-con hordes doing it. Or it could be Hezbollah, or North Korea, or Russia, or whatever. It just seems to me that this is probably going to be a growing phenomenon, and we’re all probably going to have to deal with it. On second thought, perhaps the SDMB is safe. It’s a ‘hard target’. This place is so good at rational discussion and debunking that it might be seen as a tough nut to crack. Maybe all the spooks are hanging around the AOL chatrooms and posting blog entries at places like FreeRepublic and Daily KOS. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/13 "2006-08-14T04:34:55Z")
Wow. I bet [Mohammad](http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/images/MohammadAfif.jpg) and [Hussein](http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/images/HusseinNaboulsi.jpg) of the Hezbollah Media Relations will get a hard time, now. (These are real bussiness cards) ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/14 "2006-08-14T04:45:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] It does bring up an interesting issue for message boards, however. Leaving the current conflict out of it to prevent people from pointing fingers at current members, as various factions in conflicts become increasingly internet-savvy, it seems likely to me that large boards of this type will be targeted for propaganda operations. It seems like a really good bang-for-your-buck type operation - order a few hundred or a few thousand soldiers or terrorists to spend their off-duty time hitting message boards, blogs, chat boards, and other group communication sites, and pose as various people and either argue for your own side’s case, or more nefariously try to kick off false stories damaging your adversary, which might take hold and run wild on the internet, or pose as citizens of the enemy country who are sympathetic, to get across the notion that they have widespread support. [/QUOTE] What would be the difference? We already have plenty of apologists for terrorists here. I can’t believe that an actual Hezbollah terrorist posting would say anything substantially different at all from the stuff people like Red Fury, Der Tries, Svetaspol and others already post. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/15 "2006-08-14T05:15:02Z")
This reminds me of [this old Penny Arcade post](http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/show/21589). > [@](#): > > I was told that if I accepted the job, I was to have at LEAST 50 identities on as many forums as I could muster (they wanted 100 eventually), with a goal of 5 posts an hour. The posts had to be well thought out, and the idea was that I was to establish multiple identities with a history on the forums, so that when the timing was right a well written but subtly placed marketing post could be finessed in. And regular visitors would recognize the post as coming from a long time poster. And [this](http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/02/01), from a few days later… > [@](#): > > Wanna know about marketing, ask a Marketer. Here’s a couple nifty bits for ya: > > 1. I have in my possession a marketing plan for NBA LIVE 2004 (don’t ask how I got it… ). This marketing plan actually refers to “Hiring viral specialists to advocate NBA Live online via chat rooms targeting gaming fan sites” and “Placing offensive, defensive and PR shills into common gaming chat arenas.” It goes on to outline a full page of tactics for said “Guerilla Online Marketing for Core Gamers.” > > 2. I actually hired a company called Hype Council ([http://www.hypecouncil.com](http://www.hypecouncil.com)). These guys do a TON of gaming related stuff – I actually wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the company referred to in your news post. Their technique is quite insidious. Let’s say they were hired to pump up PA (not like you need the buzz, but whatever…). Using one of the hundreds of shill accounts they have across the net, they post a new thread that says something like “hey guys, I’ve been looking for some new web comics to read. Anybody have any recommendations?” This is non-threatening, and gets the community engaged. They then wait a couple days and post again, this time with “Well, I asked some friends and they suggested I check out Penny Arcade \. I thought it was pretty funny, although I didn’t like all the cuss words. What do you guys think?” Again, seeking engagement, they now have stealthily inserted the client’s link, thereby encouraging trial. It’s all very measurable and very effective. You should see the monthly reports you get from these guys: everything is detailed. Spooky. > > It’s all very insidious and, I’m sure, widespread. So much so that I don’t trust anything I read. Unless it’s a board where I “know” the posters, I always assume everyone on the board is a shill. I suspect we are already infiltrated, even here on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/16 "2006-08-14T05:19:48Z")
[QUOTE=nameless] I suspect we are already infiltrated, even here on the SDMB. [/QUOTE] Insert “Mwahahahahahaha!” here. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/17 "2006-08-14T05:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=nameless] This reminds me of [this old Penny Arcade post](http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/show/21589). And [this](http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/02/01), from a few days later… I suspect we are already infiltrated, even here on the SDMB. [/QUOTE] As I alluded to above, this is called “astroturfing” - artificial grassroots movements ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-orders-jews-and-christians-to-fight-through-the-internet/368591/18 "2006-08-14T05:47:59Z")
Since the OP does not seem interested, there does not appear to be a topic of debate, and some other posters appear to be mostly interested in making stupid comments about other posters, I’m shutting this down. [/Moderating]