# Israel/Palestine: "One-state solution" on the table again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814 "2012-04-24T16:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/61 "2012-04-25T00:02:40Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Well, that would be quite a blanket statement. > > I am, however, constantly amazed how in the perception of ME conflict Israel prevails as the “victim” all the while basic facts such as number of dead, amount of land & property stolen, daily difficulties of life significantly prevail on the side of Palestinians. > > Yes, that is truly amazing. > > Back home, we used to say, if Serbs hire Israelis to run their propaganda department we are all screwed. Too bad Serbs are immensely stupid so the perception of Balkan war almost matched basic facts - but that’s only because of their low international cultural awareness. Ho hum. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/62 "2012-04-25T00:08:10Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Well, that would be quite a blanket statement. > > I am, however, constantly amazed how in the perception of ME conflict Israel prevails as the “victim” all the while basic facts such as number of dead, amount of land & property stolen, daily difficulties of life significantly prevail on the side of Palestinians. > > Yes, that is truly amazing. > > Back home, we used to say, if Serbs hire Israelis to run their propaganda department we are all screwed. Too bad Serbs are immensely stupid so the perception of Balkan war almost matched basic facts - but that’s only because of their low international cultural awareness. Fine, but what’s all that got to do with the thread topic, i.e., the possibility and viability of a one-state solution? And how do we know whether it would turn out more like South Africa or Zimbabwe? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/63 "2012-04-25T00:09:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Three words: Right of Return. In practice, how many more Palestinians would that likely add to the population between the Jordan and the sea? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/64 "2012-04-25T00:30:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In practice, how many more Palestinians would that likely add to the population between the Jordan and the sea? Wikipedia: “Today, the estimated number of Palestinian refugees, including both first-generation refugees and their descendants, exceeds four million.[14]” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/65 "2012-04-25T00:50:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wikipedia: “Today, the estimated number of Palestinian refugees, including both first-generation refugees and their descendants, exceeds four million.[14]” Yes, but how many actually want to live in Israel/Palestine? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/66 "2012-04-25T01:07:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes, but how many actually want to live in Israel/Palestine? A whole bunch. They claim a “right of return” also. I would imagine that many of them would do it just to screw the Israelis. And I want a safe place to go if things turn against us here, if I can talk them into it despite my Conservative conversion. Yeah, I know Allessan, “Good luck with that.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/67 "2012-04-25T03:18:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes, but how many actually want to live in Israel/Palestine? That may depend on where they’re living now. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/68 "2012-04-25T04:17:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Bear in mind, also:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people) > > **Only** 49%. Not a majority, let alone an overwhelming one. Making Israeli citizens of them all would not be like abolition of Apartheid in SA, where power was handed from one electorate to a completely different one overnight. If the Pals ever become an absolute numerical majority, that will be seen coming from far off and everybody will have time to plan for it. But we do see it coming from far off, right now. The Palestinians have the highest growth rate of any human population, ever - they _average_, I think, 8 children per family - and unlike historical societies where such large families were common, thanks to the fact that they have access to modern medicine, most of those children reach adulthood. Do you think they were 49% of the population 20 years ago? The only reason the Jewish population (2.7 children per family) has somehow managed to keep up is immigration, and unless you’ve heard of 2 million American Jews who have considered making Aliyah, that well has pretty much dried out. “The womb of the Arab woman is my strongest weapon” - Yasser Arafat, and he wasn’t kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/69 "2012-04-25T06:52:49Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > You would presume wrong. There was nothing stopping Egypt and Jordan from setting up a Palestinian state in Gaza or the West Bank from 1948-67 when they were in physical control of the lands, but they had no inclination to do so. Not only that, but Israel insisted that Egypt take Gaza along with the Sinai in the 1978 Camp David Accords. The Egyptians refused, and that douchebag Carter took their side. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/70 "2012-04-25T15:14:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would imagine that many of them would do it just to screw the Israelis. :rolleyes: Now, that’s a great argument for keeping them away. If Israel were a person it would have what’s called a “narcissistic paranoid personality disorder”. Just for the fun of it check out [these symptoms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder): [ul] [li]Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation[/li][li]May take advantage of others to reach their own goal[/li][li]Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents[/li][li]Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance[/li][li]Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others[/li][li]Easily becomes jealous[/li][li]Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others[/li][li]Obsessed with oneself[/li][li]Mainly pursues selfish goals[/li][li]Trouble keeping healthy relationships[/li][li]Is easily hurt and rejected[/li][li]Sets unrealistic goals[/li][li]Wants “the best” of everything[/li][li]Appears as tough-minded or unemotional[/li][/ul] Classic. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/71 "2012-04-25T15:37:39Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Now, that’s a great argument for keeping them away. > > If Israel were a person it would have what’s called a “narcissistic paranoid personality disorder”. > > Just for the fun of it check out [these symptoms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder): > > [ul] > [li]Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation[/li][li]May take advantage of others to reach their own goal[/li][li]Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents[/li][li]Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance[/li][li]Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others[/li][li]Easily becomes jealous[/li][li]Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others[/li][li]Obsessed with oneself[/li][li]Mainly pursues selfish goals[/li][li]Trouble keeping healthy relationships[/li][li]Is easily hurt and rejected[/li][li]Sets unrealistic goals[/li][li]Wants “the best” of everything[/li][li]Appears as tough-minded or unemotional[/li][/ul] > > Classic. Thank you, Dr. Laura! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/72 "2012-04-25T15:49:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not only that, but Israel insisted that Egypt take Gaza along with the Sinai in the 1978 Camp David Accords. The Egyptians refused, and that douchebag Carter took their side. Israel didn’t get everything they wanted in the negotiations, that’s called compromise. Doesn’t make Carter a douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/73 "2012-04-25T16:48:33Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Doesn’t make Carter a douchebag. His book does, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/74 "2012-04-25T17:29:41Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Now, that’s a great argument for keeping them away. > > If Israel were a person it would have what’s called a “narcissistic paranoid personality disorder”. > > Just for the fun of it check out [these symptoms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder): > > [ul] > [li]Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation[/li][li]May take advantage of others to reach their own goal[/li][li]Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents[/li][li]Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance[/li][li]Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others[/li][li]Easily becomes jealous[/li][li]Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others[/li][li]Obsessed with oneself[/li][li]Mainly pursues selfish goals[/li][li]Trouble keeping healthy relationships[/li][li]Is easily hurt and rejected[/li][li]Sets unrealistic goals[/li][li]Wants “the best” of everything[/li][li]Appears as tough-minded or unemotional[/li][/ul] > > Classic. Lol, you forgot one symptom: Projecting one’s own faults onto others. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/75 "2012-04-25T17:38:30Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > It’s funny (or, outrageous) that the only way to “legalize” land grab is to create a one-state solution. This is exactly why a one-state solution will not work. Rightly or wrongly, the general sentiment among the Arabs in the area is that the Jews “stole their land.” So if they are in the majority, they will try to chase out and/or slaughter all of the Jews. A believe that a one-state solution could eventually work, but only after the Jews become a comfortable majority between the Mediterranean and the Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/76 "2012-04-25T17:50:58Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, you forgot one symptom: > > Projecting one’s own faults onto others. > > 😉 Sounds more and more like my Ex-wife. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/77 "2012-04-25T18:52:52Z")
Back several years ago, my wife and I were watching some show, and a bit about the Intifada came on. So being a history geek she knows, my wife asked me what it was all about. I attempted to give her as unbiased a recital of the circumstances as I could. She summed it up pretty well, I think. “Wow, there really isn’t a good guy in this one, is there?” Ruefully, I had to agree, but I did tell her my personal take on it. I will state that I think the biggest sign of who the “bad guys” are here is that the IDF doesn’t lob random unguided rockets into Gaza, as a general rule. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/78 "2012-04-25T20:39:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And how do we know whether it would turn out more like South Africa or Zimbabwe? The best way to predict is to look at how Arab majorities have behaved in other countries in the past and in the present. The facts are not encouraging. Besides which, it’s too early to tell if South Africa will end up like Zimbabwe. White rule in South Africa ended less than 20 years ago. Things didn’t start getting really ugly for whites in Zimbabwe until around 2000 – about 20 years after white rule ended. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/79 "2012-04-25T21:05:56Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > A believe that a one-state solution could eventually work, but only after the Jews become a comfortable majority between the Mediterranean and the Jordan. Barring massive ethnic cleansing on the part of Israel which would lead them to being a pariah or the situation for Jewish Americans rather dramatically deteriorating, the latter is not happening. Also, if life for Jews in Israel’s patron grew so bad they had to flee to Israel then the Arabs would be the least of their worries. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/80 "2012-04-25T21:09:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not only that, but Israel insisted that Egypt take Gaza along with the Sinai in the 1978 Camp David Accords. The Egyptians refused, and that douchebag Carter took their side. Come to think of it, what did they even want the Sinai for? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=5)