# Israel/Palestine: "One-state solution" on the table again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814 "2012-04-24T16:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/101 "2012-04-26T03:43:47Z")
It was mentioned a bit on the first page, but I wonder if the three state solution isn’t the best at this point. One state for the Jews, one for Fatah, and one for Hamas. It would, at the very least, allow the international community to act as though there isn’t just “Palestinians” when there in reality are Palestinians who want peace and those that don’t, but they often get treated the same by both lefties and righties (though in different ways). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/102 "2012-04-26T05:17:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > And I want a safe place to go if things turn against us here, if I can talk them into it despite my Conservative conversion. You know, it is really a lot more realistic to think of the U.S. as the bolt-hole in case things for Jews go all death-shaped in Israel, rather than the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/103 "2012-04-26T05:29:01Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Hey! > Be polite and nice. > I thought we were getting along. > 🙂 My comment wasn’t intended as an insult either to him or you. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/104 "2012-04-26T05:32:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You know, it is really a lot more realistic to think of the U.S. as the bolt-hole in case things for Jews go all death-shaped in Israel, rather than the other way around. Er…what makes you think the US would suddenly open the floodgates for non-American Jews? The US certainly had a vastly better record than Canada during WWII, but the dish say “come one, come all” to the Jew of Europe as the Nazis were shoving them into ovens. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/105 "2012-04-26T06:40:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The OP’s desired “one-state solution” will be closer to fruition once he can point out to the Israelis all the current examples of Arab nations in which Jewish minorities live in harmony with Arab majorities, while possessing something resembling equal rights. > > (crickets) Well, if Israel does this, wouldn’t this be the first and only time, of all the countries in the ME right now, that a Jewish country grants the rights to its Arab population instead of the other way around? Maybe the Jews can show them how its done right. Also, perhaps the state’s can codify some basic equalities into its constitution that cannot be changed The alternative is what we have now so not much better ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/106 "2012-04-26T07:05:39Z")
> [@Randvek](#): > > It was mentioned a bit on the first page, but I wonder if the three state solution isn’t the best at this point. One state for the Jews, one for Fatah, and one for Hamas. It would, at the very least, allow the international community to act as though there isn’t just “Palestinians” when there in reality are Palestinians who want peace and those that don’t, but they often get treated the same by both lefties and righties (though in different ways). There aren’t “Palestinians who want peace.” (On an individual basis, there are surely Palestinian Arabs who want peace, but as groups, what they want is for there not to be a Jewish State in the area.) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/107 "2012-04-26T07:12:18Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Maybe the Jews can show them how its done right. Sure, for example by giving them the right to criticize their government without repercussion. Did you know that there is only one country in the Middle East where Arabic language newspapers can safely criticize the government? It’s not just that it’s better to be an Arab in Israel than a Jew in an Arab country. It’s also better to be an Arab in Israel than an Arab in an Arab country. Try protesting the government in Syria or Jordan. You will get hit with a lot more than just tear gas. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/108 "2012-04-26T08:37:24Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s not just that it’s better to be an Arab in Israel than a Jew in an Arab country. It’s also better to be an Arab in Israel than an Arab in an Arab country. Almost word for word what slavery proponents said in the US: Not only are Blacks in Africa savages that treat other Blacks savagely, Black slaves in the US have a much better life than Blacks in Africa. That may even have been true. But it rather misses the point, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/109 "2012-04-26T10:27:47Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > That may even have been true. But it rather misses the point, don’t you think? Why? A one-state solution will invariably turn into an Arab-majority state, and then a Arab state. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/110 "2012-04-26T11:15:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why? A one-state solution will invariably turn into an Arab-majority state, and then a Arab state. And dismantling Apartheid will turn South Africa into a Black majority state, then a Black state. And this is of course a terrible thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/111 "2012-04-26T11:27:22Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > And dismantling Apartheid will turn South Africa into a Black majority state, then a Black state. > > And this is of course a terrible thing. Well, South Africa isn’t without its problems , but the analogy is too remote for me to be impressed by it. _If_ the Arab Spring was starting to form shaky but promising democracies, _then_ I might have some reasonable expectation that a Palestinian-majority state that would arise from a one-state solution could remain a democracy, but so far… Maybe in a few years, after the quasi-states of Gaza and West Bank toss out Fatah and Hamas and establish something akin to rule of law… It is, in any case, a cultural thing, not a race thing. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/112 "2012-04-26T11:47:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > As for the rest of the Arab governments, who knows what they actually want? Most of them certainly haven’t taken any steps toward recognizing Israel or initiating diplomatic relations. If there’s any sign that their stated belief of the past 64 years - \*Judea delenda est \*- has changed, they certainly haven’t made it known to us. Actually, they have. The Arab Peace Initiative was not a huge secret. It offered normalized relations with Israel, under conditions Israel won’t accept, such as withdrawal from the occupied territories, and reparations to expelled Palestinians. You are entitled to believe that the conditions are unacceptable, but you can’t say that there has been no change in the Arab position in 64 years. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/113 "2012-04-26T12:35:50Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Actually, they have. The Arab Peace Initiative was not a huge secret. Lol, everyone knows what Prince Abdullah meant when he referred to the “return of refugees.” And everyone knows what the consequences are if millions of Arabs flood into Israel. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/114 "2012-04-26T12:38:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It is, in any case, a cultural thing, not a race thing. I agree. Arab culture does not seem to be good a promoting peaceful co-existence between separate groups of people. Far more Arabs get persecuted and slaughtered in places like Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon than in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/115 "2012-04-26T14:18:27Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er…what makes you think the US would suddenly open the floodgates for non-American Jews? > > The US certainly had a vastly better record than Canada during WWII, but the dish say “come one, come all” to the Jew of Europe as the Nazis were shoving them into ovens. **That’s** why. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/116 "2012-04-26T14:20:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > _If_ the Arab Spring was starting to form shaky but promising democracies . . . That is, in fact, what it appears to be doing, so far. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/117 "2012-04-26T14:33:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That is, in fact, what it appears to be doing, so far. Can you elaborate? I think the army is still running Egypt, for example. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/118 "2012-04-26T14:43:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Can you elaborate? I think the army is still running Egypt, for example. To be expected, since the revolution succeeded only because the army wanted it to. But they are having elections, they are on track to establish elected government, and sooner or later the generals are going to have to give way. Tunisia is way ahead of them – hard to imagine things going any better there, really. Things ain’t going too smooth in Libya, but I really can’t imagine any postwar scenario that, by this date, lands them any further along the road to democracy and stability than they are now. Seems to me what frightens Jews/Westerners in this context is not that Arabs can’t make democracy work, but that when they get a chance at it, they (in this decade, at least) tend to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood. Which is not as scary as it sounds, the MB really is more like Europe’s Christian Democrats than any jihadist organization, MB won’t try to stone adulterers or take the vote away from women (that would be [Al-Nour](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nour)); OTOH, MB really **doesn’t** like Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/119 "2012-04-26T15:00:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That is, in fact, what it appears to be doing, so far. And I look forward with cautious optimism, with the bare-minimal standard being, I figure: -Can the press start operating freely? -Will secret arrests and extended imprisonments for unstated crimes cease to exist? -Can the new democracy get through three election cycles without blatant voter fraud? -Can the new democracy get candidates elected that have general appeal, as opposed to getting automatic support from their particular tribe? I guess it’ll be ten years or more before we find out if democracy “takes”, and this is among people who ostensibly want not to be ruled by thugs and liars. If the Palestinians tossed out Hamas _today_, I’d still wait-and-see a decade before putting my faith in their ability to handle participatory liberal-ish democracy. And lest you imply again that I’m a racist for believing so, I’ll point out that it took longer than ten years (sometimes a _lot_ longer) to establish democracies in Europe, and even then they were fragile enough to slide into dictatorships at times. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/120 "2012-04-26T15:16:51Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > Alternate one-state solution: Give the West Bank back to Jordan and give Gaza to Egypt. Neither would take them. Jordan’s current Palestinian population presents a _huge_ political problem to the current government - they would never, ever consent to a return of the West Bank. Egypt might be slightly more sympathetic to the Gaza Strip - their domestic Palestininan refugee population is less of a political hot-potato - but it’s still not likely. Right now, the Sinai works as a sort of buffer zone between Egypt and Israel - Egypt owns it, but doesn’t really militarize it. But governing Gaza would require moving lots of armed people right up to the Israeli border - not the safest choice ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=7)