# Israel/Palestine: "One-state solution" on the table again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814 "2012-04-24T16:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/121 "2012-04-26T15:19:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > - Incidentally, the way most Israelis see it, the conflict isn’t between Israelis and Palestinians, it’s between Israelis and _Arabs_. As far as Israelis are concerned, their fight is with the Arab world as a whole, with the Palestinians simply being the Arabs who are closest at hand. It’s a strange conflict when both sides believe they’re the underdogs. And creates real problems for Israeli Arabs - it must be a strange thing to know that, by virtue of ethinicity, you will never serve as PM, President, or a minister of one of the power ministries. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/122 "2012-04-26T15:19:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I guess it’ll be ten years or more before we find out if democracy “takes” My guess is that we will know sooner than that. And I am less optimistic than you. From yesterday’s news: > [@](#): > > One of Egypt’s best known actors, Adel Imam, has been handed a three-month hard labor sentence and a fine of about $170 for insulting Islam in roles he portrayed in film and on the stage. From a few days ago: > [@](#): > > Egypt has notified Israel that it is “terminating” a controversial gas supply deal, Ampal-American Israel Corporation, which owns a stake in a company that exports natural gas from Egypt to Israel, said on Sunday. From a few weeks ago: > [@](#): > > The Muslim Brotherhood’s candidate for Egypt’s presidency is lobbying hard for support of ultraconservative Muslim clerics, promising them a say over legislation in the future to ensure it is in line with Islamic law, as he tries to rally the divided Islamist vote behind him. From January: > [@](#): > > The Central Cairo Prosecution has referred Coptic businessman Naguib Sawiris to trial over charges of defamation of religion. > > In June, Sawiris posted a picture depicting Mickey Mouse wearing a beard and Minnie Mouse wearing a face veil on his Twitter account, a cartoon that many Muslims considered offensive. > > Sawiris later apologized for posting the cartoon, however, his apology did not manage to calm the anger of Salafis who filed a report accusing him of defaming religion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/123 "2012-04-26T15:20:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Really? Because the emerging government in Egypt is starting to look pretty hostile, and there’s no sign that whoever ends up in charge in Syria will be any better. As for the rest of the Arab governments, who knows what they actually want? Most of them certainly haven’t taken any steps toward recognizing Israel or initiating diplomatic relations. If there’s any sign that their stated belief of the past 64 years - \*Judea delenda est \*- has changed, they certainly haven’t made it known to us. Really? I’d thought Jordan was more-or-less cool. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/124 "2012-04-26T15:22:24Z")
By the way, **Brainglutton** is on record as predicting that the revolution in Libya would “almost certainly” result in a "“friendly, secular, democratic” regime. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/125 "2012-04-26T15:32:30Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > And creates real problems for Israeli Arabs - it must be a strange thing to know that, by virtue of ethinicity, you will never serve as PM, President, or a minister of one of the power ministries. I suppose you could ask Jews living in most of the Arab world how it feels. Those who haven’t been chased out already, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/126 "2012-04-26T16:40:49Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > By the way, **Brainglutton** is on record as predicting that the revolution in Libya would “almost certainly” result in a "“friendly, secular, democratic” regime. Please identify a single country that was an ideal democracy once it adopted the form of government. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/127 "2012-04-26T16:45:20Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I suppose you could ask Jews living in most of the Arab world how it feels. Those who haven’t been chased out already, I mean. Far worse, I’ve no doubt. Is that the standard we want to hold Israel to - that the only democracy in the Middle East (well, except for the Arab Spring thing) is less racist than their neighbors? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/128 "2012-04-26T17:31:39Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Far worse, I’ve no doubt. Is that the standard we want to hold Israel to - that the only democracy in the Middle East (well, except for the Arab Spring thing) is less racist than their neighbors? Well it depends on what your purposes are in judging Israel. If the question on the table is whether Israeli Jews should be concerned about the possibility of living in a country with an Arab majority, then the answer is clearly “yes.” What was your purpose in pointing out that Israeli Arabs are (as a practical matter) barred from serving in some (but not all) of the highest positions of Israeli government? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/129 "2012-04-26T18:05:13Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > By the way, **Brainglutton** is on record as predicting that the revolution in Libya would “almost certainly” result in a "“friendly, secular, democratic” regime. I repeat that prediction. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/130 "2012-04-26T18:28:32Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Well it depends on what your purposes are in judging Israel. If the question on the table is whether Israeli Jews should be concerned about the possibility of living in a country with an Arab majority, then the answer is clearly “yes.” Um. There is nothing magical about being an Arab that pre-disposes one towards bad government - a majority-Arab Israeli state could certainly maintain a liberal democracy. > [@](#): > > What was your purpose in pointing out that Israeli Arabs are (as a practical matter) barred from serving in some (but not all) of the highest positions of Israeli government? Well, most liberal democracies view race-based bars to public office (de facto or de jure) as bad things. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/131 "2012-04-26T18:30:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I repeat that prediction. I don’t necessarily disagree, but only because I think the overall trend worldwide (over the past several hundred years) has been towards more democratic, secular and non-violent government. Do you care to put a time-frame on your own prediction? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/132 "2012-04-26T19:01:21Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Um. There is nothing magical about being an Arab that pre-disposes one towards bad government No, it’s just their culture. > [@](#): > > - a majority-Arab Israeli state could certainly maintain a liberal democracy. Anything is possible. But the best way to predict a group’s behavior is to look at the group’s track record. The Arab track record is not encouraging. > [@](#): > > Well, most liberal democracies view race-based bars to public office (de facto or de jure) as bad things. Israel does not have such a bar. For example, an Arab sits on the Israeli Supreme Court. There are also many Arab members of the Knesset. And whether it’s good or bad depends on the alternative. Israel is a democracy and the voters (the majority of whom are Jewish) correctly perceive that the Arab leadership is generally speaking hostile to the interests of Israel’s Jewish citizenry. So it’s unsurprising that there is never an Arab PM. Anyway, can I take it that your purpose in making your point was simply to throw out some gratuitous criticism of Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/133 "2012-04-26T19:34:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I repeat that prediction. Well, here’s hoping, but I guess it’ll be at least ten years before we can be sure, and the process could go awry at any time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/134 "2012-04-26T20:48:45Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, here’s hoping, but I guess it’ll be at least ten years before we can be sure . . . 😕 I expect Libya will be stable and open-for-tourists and everything within one year from now, two at the most. Where are you getting ten?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/135 "2012-04-26T20:50:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No, it’s just their culture. How does Arab culture pre-dispose one toward bad government? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/136 "2012-04-26T20:51:28Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Besides which, it’s too early to tell if South Africa will end up like Zimbabwe. :rolleyes::dubious: No, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/137 "2012-04-26T21:40:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 I expect Libya will be stable and open-for-tourists and everything within one year from now, two at the most. Where are you getting ten?! From my sense of optimistic generosity. I’m not talking about mere stability, but actual functional democracy. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/138 "2012-04-26T22:29:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How does Arab culture pre-dispose one toward bad government? I think it’s some combination of too much value on honor; too little value on tolerance; and too little value on harmony. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/139 "2012-04-26T22:31:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes::dubious: No, it isn’t. Lol, a stunning rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/140 "2012-04-26T22:39:09Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I think it’s some combination of too much value on honor; too little value on tolerance; and too little value on harmony. I’ve wondered if it is testosterone poisoning. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=8)