# Israel/Palestine: "One-state solution" on the table again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814 "2012-04-24T16:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/141 "2012-04-26T22:46:51Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, everyone knows what Prince Abdullah meant when he referred to the “return of refugees.” I don’t know what you think is so funny, and I don’t know why you think everyone agrees with you, but the document specifically states that the refugee solution would be negotiated, presumbly under the auspices of the UN. It seems to me that is more encouraging than then-PM Olmert’s 2007 statement after the API was reaffirmed by the Arab countries, when he said he refused to consider the return of a single refugee: "Olmert reiterated that Israel would not accept the return to Israel of any refugees. It is “out of the question,” he said. “I’ll never accept a solution that is based on their return to Israel, any number.” > **[Israel News: Updates on Israeli Politics, Security & Diplomacy | The...](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news)** > > Stay informed on Israel News: All for the latest updates, and breaking news on Israeli politics, culture, Israeli sports, Health, and Tech from the Jerusalem Post He added, “I will not agree to accept any kind of Israel responsibility for the refugees. Full stop…It’s a moral issue of the highest level. I don’t think that we should accept any kind of responsibility for the creation of this problem.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/142 "2012-04-26T22:54:34Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I think it’s some combination of too much value on honor; too little value on tolerance; and too little value on harmony. I’d’a thought it was tribalism, myself, in which one is expected (if not required, under penalty of scandal) to side with a member of one’s clan/family/ethnic subgroup no matter what, who will then be expected to show favoritism in return. Hence, voters don’t care about political or economic issues - just who “their” candidate is, and how, if elected, he’ll throw jobs and contracts to his specific people, regardless of the effect on the state overall. Heck, if my third cousin came to me and said “we have to vote for Smith!” my first question would be “Who the heck are you?”, since I don’t know my third cousins, nor feel any reason to take political guidance from them. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/143 "2012-04-26T23:00:37Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I don’t know what you think is so funny, What’s funny is that you seriously believe that the Arab world is on board with a peace plan which doesn’t destroy Israel as a Jewish state. > [@](#): > > , but the document specifically states that the refugee solution would be negotiated, presumbly under the auspices of the UN. So in your view, the “Arab Peace Initiative” does not offer a specific proposal for the “refugee” issue, it’s just an agreement to negotiate on that issue? And in your view, what exactly did Prince Abdullah mean when he referred to “return of refugees.”? > [@](#): > > "Olmert reiterated that Israel would not accept the return to Israel of any refugees. It is “out of the question,” he said. “I’ll never accept a solution that is based on their return to Israel, any number.” Let’s assume that’s true – so what? It doesn’t change the fact that the Arab goal is to destroy Israel as a Jewish state. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/144 "2012-04-26T23:01:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d’a thought it was tribalism, myself, in which one is expected (if not required, under penalty of scandal) to side with a member of one’s clan/family/ethnic subgroup no matter what, who will then be expected to show favoritism in return. Hence, voters don’t care about political or economic issues - just who “their” candidate is, and how, if elected, he’ll throw jobs and contracts to his specific people, regardless of the effect on the state overall. I would guess that’s part of it too. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/145 "2012-04-27T01:52:27Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It doesn’t change the fact that the Arab goal . . . How can there be such a thing as an “Arab goal”? Arabs can’t seem to agree on much; Pan-Arabism has been a dead letter for decades. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/146 "2012-04-27T07:28:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How can there be such a thing as an “Arab goal”? Arabs can’t seem to agree on much; Hostility towards Israel seems to be one thing they pretty much agree on. Let me ask you this: How often has it happened in the last 50 years that an Arab state has voted against an anti-Israel resolution at the UN? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/147 "2012-04-27T13:07:34Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Hostility towards Israel seems to be one thing they pretty much agree on. > > Let me ask you this: How often has it happened in the last 50 years that an Arab state has voted against an anti-Israel resolution at the UN? I dunno – none, I guess, or you would not pose the question; have any at least abstained from voting for it? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/148 "2012-04-27T14:19:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I dunno – none, I guess I would guess the same thing. Another interesting thing: Pretty much all of the Arab states are in agreement that Palestinian Arabs should not be eligible for citizenship. This causes a lot of suffering for Palestinian Arabs who were born in Lebanon, Syria, etc. And yet the policy continues in effect since the Arabs perceive that it helps to undermine Israel. Even the leadership of Fatah have announced that if they get a Palestinian State on the West Bank, they will not offer citizenship to Palestinian Arabs from places like Lebanon and Syria. Even today, there are Palestinian Arabs sitting in refugee camps in Jordan – people who fled Gaza back in 1967. Nobody is attempting to return them to Gaza. The reasonable conclusion from all of this is that the Arabs (generally speaking) hate Israel far more than they love their own people. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/149 "2012-04-27T15:50:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > The reasonable conclusion from all of this is that the Arabs (generally speaking) hate Israel far more than they love their own people. The much more likely scenario is that they like to use Israel for their own political purposes. Israel’s been in a few wars in its history but not a combined attack of all its Arab neighbors. If the hatred was as much as you claimed, no ME country would be in a peace with them. However, the distraction of Israel serves to divert attention away from their own policies. Most of the other ME countries want Israel around ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/150 "2012-04-27T16:01:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The much more likely scenario is that they like to use Israel for their own political purposes. Israel’s been in a few wars in its history but not a combined attack of all its Arab neighbors. All except Lebanon. And it’s not like Lebanon loves Israel or something. > [@](#): > > If the hatred was as much as you claimed, no ME country would be in a peace with them. Pretty much none are. Well, there’s Egypt which gets what amounts to a 2 billion dollar a year bribe. And still remains rather hostile. And Jordan. > [@](#): > > However, the distraction of Israel serves to divert attention away from their own policies. Most of the other ME countries want Israel around Then why not absorb the so-called “refugees”? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/151 "2012-04-27T23:18:03Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > All except Lebanon. And it’s not like Lebanon loves Israel or something. Are you saying that Israel has been in a war with all of its neighbors except Lebanon? Which war was that? > [@brazil84](#): > > Pretty much none are. Well, there’s Egypt which gets what amounts to a 2 billion dollar a year bribe. And still remains rather hostile. And Jordan. No, almost all countries in the ME are peaceful with Israel with few exceptions. They may make pronouncements about its legitimacy and idiot politicians are often misquoted as to wanting Israel destroyed, but nobody really does anything. Actions are louder than words, and it plays to the next part below: > [@brazil84](#): > > Then why not absorb the so-called “refugees”? They don’t want to. Those are illegal immigrants to them, and like I said, keeping them around and Israel around as a distraction to their own policies is beneficial to them. Why get rid of a wholly manufactured enemy? Do you think Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Qatar really believes Israel’s a threat to them? No, so they enjoy having Israel around so that whenever people talk about reform or regime change, those in charge can rattle the cages and get some angry protests about Israel to drown out the failures of their own policy Its kind of like abortion in the US. There is a population that wants abortion completely banned, but almost no conservative GOP wants that to happen. That’s why they make these pathetic bills limiting abortion but not banning it, because 1) they know they will lose a SCOTUS challenge and 2) they can use the issue to rally people to their side ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/152 "2012-04-28T01:00:24Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Are you saying that Israel has been in a war with all of its neighbors except Lebanon? Which war was that? I’ve never found a list of which countries attacked Israel when they declared statehood in 1948. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/153 "2012-04-28T02:16:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’ve never found a list of which countries attacked Israel when they declared statehood in 1948. > **[1948 Arab–Israeli War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War)** > > Central and Jerusalem front > Northern front Wikipedia has some information about the nations/armies involved. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/154 "2012-04-28T02:27:14Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > [1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) > > Wikipedia has some information about the nations/armies involved. Yes, I looked at that before I posted, but there is no list. What was it, five, seven countries? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/155 "2012-04-28T02:44:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Yes, I looked at that before I posted, but there is no list. > What was it, five, seven countries? There’s a list right there. Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon in addition to other groups/forces. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/156 "2012-04-28T08:40:45Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Are you saying that Israel has been in a war with all of its neighbors except Lebanon? Which war was that? 1. And again in 1967. If you really don’t know that, then you should consider taking a break to study the history of the region before making assertions and arguments about the Arab/Israeli conflict. > [@](#): > > No, almost all countries in the ME are peaceful with Israel with few exceptions. Again, if you really believe that you are completely ignorant of the situation in the Middle East. Israel has conducted hostile military operations in Lebanon and Syria just in the last 10 years. A few years ago, Israel bombed a Syrian nuclear project. Try entering Lebanon, Syria, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, or Iraq with an Israeli passport and see what happens. Why do you suppose Syria has not launched a military assault against Israel for bombing its nuclear reactor project? Are the Syrians that peace-loving? Or do they just know that Israel will kick their asses again? > [@](#): > > Those are illegal immigrants to them, Illegal immigrants can come from a lot of different places, but typically they do not merit a special resolution of the Arab League: > [@](#): > > Arab states will reject the giving of citizenship to applicants of Palestinian origin in order to prevent their integration into the host countries As far as I know, that resolution is still in effect today. But actually, it gets better. Because you would think that of all Arab nations, a “Palestinian State” would grant citizenship to Palestinian Arabs. Not so. The plan is to deny citizenship to Palestinian Arabs, even those living in “refugee camps” on the West Bank. > [@](#): > > Do you think Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Qatar really believes Israel’s a threat to them? No I don’t. (By the way, Turkey is not an Arab country.) But that’s not the issue. > [@](#): > > Its kind of like abortion in the US. There is a population that wants abortion completely banned, but almost no conservative GOP wants that to happen. That’s why they make these pathetic bills limiting abortion but not banning it, because 1) they know they will lose a SCOTUS challenge and 2) they can use the issue to rally people to their side Actually this is a pretty good analogy. It may very well be true that your typical conservative GOP leader does not want abortion banned. Or does not have strong feelings about the issue. Just like your typical Saudi Prince probably doesn’t care too much about Israel, he probably cares far more about chasing girls and partying. But if things got to a point where conservative GOPers were in complete control of the United States for long enough to impose its agenda, what would happen is that the hard-core pro-lifers would push hard for abortion restrictions and party leadership would tend to go along with it because they don’t want to take a pro-choice stand. Something similar would happen with Israel if the Arab states were strong enough to conquer Israel militarily. Let me ask you this: Why did Iraq participate in the 1948 war against Israel, and again in 1967? Surely the Iraqis did not consider Israel to be a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/157 "2012-04-28T09:51:55Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Let me ask you this: Why did Iraq participate in the 1948 war against Israel, and again in 1967? Surely the Iraqis did not consider Israel to be a threat. Iraq had treaty obligation with her allies that she’d aid them if attacked by Israel and Israel launched a preemptive strike against Egypt. Also, keep in mind Iraq only gave token support. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/158 "2012-04-28T13:30:39Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > There’s a list right there. Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon in addition to other groups/forces. Thanks, Odesio. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/159 "2012-04-28T15:15:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Iraq had treaty obligation with her allies that she’d aid them if attacked by Israel and Israel launched a preemptive strike against Egypt. > > Also, keep in mind Iraq only gave token support. Wiki on the 1948 Arab-Israeli war gives the troop count for Iraq as “Iraq: 3,000 initially, rising to 15,000–18,000”. That’s far more than “token”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814/160 "2012-04-28T16:35:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wiki on the 1948 Arab-Israeli war gives the troop count for Iraq as “Iraq: 3,000 initially, rising to 15,000–18,000”. That’s far more than “token”. I was referring to the Six Day War in 1967, which is why I mentioned Israel’s preemptive strike on Egypt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestine-one-state-solution-on-the-table-again/619814.md?page=9)