# Israel/Palestinians: Your Take **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840 "2016-03-22T07:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/281 "2016-07-01T03:56:30Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > . . . War will not resolve anything, it never truly has. . . . Emperor Napoleon III might not agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/282 "2016-07-01T04:40:01Z")
[Not-so-fun facts](http://www.haaretz.com/nearly-100-of-all-military-court-cases-in-west-bank-end-in-conviction-haaretz-learns-1.398369), circa 2010, about the Israeli military courts that Palestinians (but not Israeli settlers in Palestinian territories) are subject to: Virtually all - 99.74 percent, to be exact - of cases heard by the military courts in the territories end in a conviction, according to data in the military courts’ annual report, which has been obtained by Haaretz. The report also shows that the military appeals courts decidedly favor the prosecution, with appeals court judges accepting 67 percent of appeals filed by the prosecution, as opposed to only 33 percent of appeals filed by the defense. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/283 "2016-07-01T05:04:31Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Not-so-fun facts](http://www.haaretz.com/nearly-100-of-all-military-court-cases-in-west-bank-end-in-conviction-haaretz-learns-1.398369), circa 2010, about the Israeli military courts that Palestinians (but not Israeli settlers in Palestinian territories) are subject to: More recently (last month), the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem has [abandoned its practice of filing complaints to Israel’s military law enforcement system about abuses of Palestinian rights in the territories](http://www.btselem.org/download/201605_occupations_fig_leaf_eng.pdf), on the grounds that it’s just giving false legitimacy to an irredeemably corrupt process: > [@](#): > > The Occupation’s Fig Leaf: Israel’s Military Law Enforcement System as a Whitewash Mechanism > > This paper focuses on the military law enforcement system and how it handles complaints filed against soldiers for harm caused to Palestinians in the West Bank, including cases of violence and gunfire that resulted in injury or death. […] > > Ever since B’Tselem was established more than 25 years ago, it has applied to the Military Advocate General Corps (MAG Corps) regarding hundreds of incidents in which Palestinians were harmed by soldiers, demanding the incidents be investigated. […] > > Even so, B’Tselem’s many years of working with the military law enforcement system have not brought the victims justice, because – as detailed below – the system operates in a way fails to hold accountable soldiers who caused harm and fails to deter others from committing similar acts. The military law enforcement system thereby fails to fulfill its function and does not provide Palestinians protection from harm. For years B’Tselem has been aware of the system’s ineffectiveness and of the problems plaguing it. Yet in the absence of viable alternatives, B’Tselem continued to demand investigations and to work with the law enforcement establishment, while pointing to necessary improvements and modifications to the work process of these bodies. > > B’Tselem has gradually come to the realization that the way in which the military law enforcement system functions precludes it from the very outset from achieving justice for the victims. Nonetheless, the very fact that the system exists serves to convey a semblance of law enforcement and justice. > > Now, after a long process of careful consideration, B’Tselem has reached the conclusion that continuing to file complaints to the military law enforcement system does more harm than good. Because B’Tselem has no desire to help the system create a mere semblance of doing justice, we have decided to stop applying to the military law enforcement system. This decision holds even in cases of suspected unlawful actions by soldiers, and even though we realize that Palestinian victims have no other avenue available to them for filing complaints against those who have done them harm. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/284 "2016-07-01T05:35:05Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > War will not resolve anything, it never truly has. > > There is only one way, that is to follow and abide in the Lord of lords and King of kings, problem solved. > He is the Light of the world that has no darkness, he is the Truth and the Way, He is our Lord and Saviour. > > I have to wash even the dust off my sandals with such who oppose the Lord Jesus. But Jesus can’t or won’t come back until there’s a devastating nuclear war in the area we’re talking about here. So in the case of the Second Coming, war is the only way to resolve it. Then again, there’s nothing Jesus can’t do… I mean He could show up tomorrow and if He’s as great as His followers believe everyone in the world ought to lay down arms right then and there. But that doesn’t seem to be an option so that means Jesus wants or needs all these people to die. Genocide would certainly fix the issue. Is that what the Savior wishes for His Chosen People? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/285 "2016-07-01T06:16:16Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The problem with your argument is that “proportional response” isn’t an arithmetic exercise. It isn’t some notion of _fairness_, as in ‘you killed one of us, so we can only kill one of you - two at most’. Yet some people appear to assume that it is, as in “A 90-to-1 kill ratio is not proportional, no matter how much you try to paint it otherwise”. > > In Just War theory, as embodied in various articulations of international law “proportionality” means that a military action is not a “war crime” if it meets a couple of tests: > > (1) The attack wasn’t a deliberate attempt to kill civilians; and > > (2) The attack wasn’t launched in the knowledge that gaining the civilian casualties resulting from the attack would be “clearly excessive” in relation to the military objectives that the attack was supposed to achieve. This is the “proportionality doctrine” that you are misusing here. > > In short, you could in theory have a war in which one side, totally outclassed, suffers 100% of the deaths. They declare war and attack with spears against machine guns and get mowed down to the last soldier: 1000 of them die, none of their enemy. This is not a war crime and is not a violation of “proportionality” . Their enemy has exactly zero requirement to allow a “fair” distribution of deaths. > > Similarly, the same advanced enemy could attack with cannon a fortress being held against them, blow a breach in the wall, and demand its surrender - and in the process kill a bunch of civilians who took shelter in that fortress. Not a war crime, as long as the “military objective” - taking the fortress - did not result in civilian casualties that were “clearly excessive” in relation to that objective. > > Now, many argue that Israeli wars against Hamas in Gaza resulted in “clearly excessive” civilian casualties. The issue is not as cut and dried as simply citing the ratio of deaths, as you have done, would assume. According to the actual doctrine, you have to examine the military objectives the Israelis were pursuing when the casualties were incurred. > > Here’s a concise statement of the doctrine, from Luis Moreno-Ocampo, Chief Prosecutor, International Criminal Court (in the context of the Iraq War): > > [Proportionality (law) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law)#International_humanitarian_law) Thank you for this very informative post! ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/286 "2016-07-01T07:23:30Z")
Pardon me for harping on this but I’ve done some more research into Migron and it illustrates what I’ve been saying about the nonexistence of a viable justice system. Keep in mind that Migron was originally held up as a Palestinian “win” in the judicial system. Here is, as near as I can tell, a timeline of the events. I’ve listed my sources (some of which came from the wiki article). 1996 - Settlers begin living in Amona (a town near Migron) which is [considered illegal by the international community](http://www.pri.org/stories/2012-03-30/israeli-court-decision-outpost-evacuation-could-have-broad-impact). I can’t tell if Palestinian land is appropriated for this. 1999-2001 - Settlers erect an outpost in Migron. Definitely on Palestinian lands. 2002 - [Settlers begin moving into Migron](http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/timeline-a-history-of-the-west-bank-outpost-of-migron-1.420797) in larger numbers. 2003 - IDF plans to demolish Migron (I don’t know where the order came from) but then they don’t. 2011 - Supreme Court orders output destroyed by 2012. Israeli government igores it, with [Energy Minister saying](http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Steinitz-Even-Palestinians-wont-benefit-from-the-needless-tragedy-of-evacuating-Amona-outpost-457963): "I respect the High Court, but I don’t always agree with it,” Steinitz said. “Sometimes it comes to absurd conclusions and the absurdity here screams out as high as the heavens.” 2012 - Settlers delay courts with petitions and suits. Israeli court orders [Palestinians to compensate Migron setters](http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Palestinians-must-compensate-Migron-settlers) for some court costs. Housing Minister is found to fund illegal Migron settlement [but is not charged](http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-decides-not-to-charge-official-over-state-funding-of-west-bank-outpost-migron-1.422231). “Lack of public interest” is one of the reasons given. 2015 - Settlers eventually evacuated but are not punished for taking Palestinian land and are in fact [given government money to relocate](http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/migron-deal-makes-a-joke-of-israel-s-judicial-system-1.420913). 2016 - Palestinians still don’t have their land back after at least 15 years. Not only is there the illegal seizure of land but the loss of assets (and potentially jobs, if the land was farmland), along with never-ending lawsuits, fosters increasing poverty. With the court system stacked against them it is little wonder that some Palestinians resort to other means. I stand by my assertion that Palestinians **have no viable means** for redressing illegal Israeli actions. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/287 "2016-07-01T08:10:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Emperor Napoleon III might not agree with that. War certainly resolved _him_. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/288 "2016-07-01T08:25:19Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > There is only one way, that is to follow and abide in the Lord of lords and King of kings, problem solved. > He is the Light of the world that has no darkness, he is the Truth and the Way, He is our Lord and Saviour. > > I have to wash even the dust off my sandals with such who oppose the Lord Jesus. And that parochial attitude - from so many religious perspectives - has resulted in how many millions of deaths and persecutions over the centuries? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/289 "2016-07-01T08:33:02Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I stand by my assertion that Palestinians **have no viable means** for redressing illegal Israeli actions. Even if I accept your assertion, I don’t think that makes it ok to go all stabby-stabby (not really directed at you, because I don’t think you think so either). There are lots of people all over the world that get the shaft, and don’t resort to stabbing girls in their beds. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/290 "2016-07-01T09:15:30Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t condone the terrorist actions by the groups in the area–especially the rockets–but what else would you recommend the Palestinians do that would have any hope of working? Israel unilaterally evicted all settlers from the Gaza Strip, and gave it back to the Palestinians. The Palestinians should have responded by ceasing all terrorist attacks against Israel, thereby sending the clear message that doing the right thing was in Israel’s best interests, and that they should repeat the experiment in the West Bank. > [@Deeg](#): > > I disagree. The treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank by Israel leads to despair and discontent, which manifests itself in rockets. That’s loser talk. Being handed a shit hand doesn’t force somebody to become a self-destructive idiot, but being a self-destructive idiot is a good way to ensure you’ll always have a shit hand. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/291 "2016-07-01T10:14:19Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Israel unilaterally evicted all settlers from the Gaza Strip, and gave it back to the Palestinians. The Palestinians should have responded by ceasing all terrorist attacks against Israel, thereby sending the clear message that doing the right thing was in Israel’s best interests, and that they should repeat the experiment in the West Bank. For a while it was indeed quiet. Then Hamas got control of the Strip, Israel disapproved and started to slowly strangle the area. There’s a lot of turtles when you start to go down the ‘who started first’ path. You are talking about a 70 year old conflict. There is no binary instance where you can point and demand that “this party should have done that”. > [@](#): > > That’s loser talk. Being handed a shit hand doesn’t force somebody to become a self-destructive idiot, but being a self-destructive idiot is a good way to ensure you’ll always have a shit hand. Rubbish, the complete opposite. Shrugging and accepting you have been “dealt a shit hand” is loser talk. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/292 "2016-07-01T15:44:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Well, yes: I think that, through the “settlements”, they are doing just that, in some places. It’s bad of them. > > I think certain right wing Israeli politicians are using the deadlock as an excuse to steal what they can, though creating ‘facts on the ground’ in advance of an expected settlement. > > This is why the deadlock doesn’t work to Palestinian advantage. The longer it lasts, the more the hard right in Israel is encouraged (and the left is discouraged), and the more “settlements” encroach on what had been Palestinian land. > > While Israel has been willing in the past to clear out “settlements” standing in the way of peace deals (see: Sinai, Gaza), it is politically costly and difficult. This is what the Israeli right is counting on. So they have the same species of fucktards we do? > [@](#): > > It is part of the Hamas Charter. I thought that the ones that supported a one state solution were willing to forego the genocide as long as Israel was no longer a Jewish state. I mean the Hamas charter also prohibits any sort of compromise or settlement with Israel as well, doesn’t it? So a one state solution already contradicts the charter, why would they preserve the genocide part and ignore the “no compromise” part? > [@](#): > > I’m not sure why this matters to the issue. The US isn’t about to take any concrete actions against Israel, at most it will withdraw funding and express the usual objections to Israeli actions - which will not really affect the course of events in a fundamental way: Israel is not, contrary to some opinions, reliant on US subsidies as an existential matter. Withdrawing the subsidies would hurt them, but not enough to dissuade them from adjusting the borders to their own satisfaction. > > Put it this way: the Palestinians could not win with war, when they had the whole Arab world at least theoretically behind them in arms - with Soviet backing (US backing for Israel post-dates the vital '67 war). How are they supposed to win with war now, when the Soviet Union is history (Putin is a poor man’s replacement), the Arab nations are internally fractured by revolt, and are a hundred times more scared of ISIS than they are of Israel? Where, practically speaking, is their leverage to come from? Recalling 1967 while ignoring 1973 seems foolhardy. It seems like whoever gets first strike tends to do pretty well. Is Israel in a better or worse position to engage in first strike today than it was in 1973? America can do more than remove financial support to throw Israel under the bus. The US veto power on the security council has protected Israel from a shitload of UN security resolutions hat would have been bad for Israel. Fair or not, there is an economic cost to being an international pariah. > [@](#): > > Their hand has few cards in it, getting fewer all the time. Waiting around for it to improve through sympathy from Western sources, while making impossible demands, strikes me as a losing strategy - it plays straight into the hands of the Israeli right, who is set on worsening their situation. Better to make a reasonable offer and enlist Israeli left wing in their camp, isolating the Israeli right as unreasonable and damaging to Israel’s international image, and get a deal done. Can you describe this reasonable offer that Palestinians should be making? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/293 "2016-07-01T15:50:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > However, using your analogy: did violent attacks on Americans actually do the native Americans any good? Strikes me all that they did was lead to massacres, given that the US had a much more powerful army. Agreed. The guilt doesn’t really kick in until much much later but unlike 18th century American West, there are other powers that would be in a position to intervene if Israel actually started exterminating the Palestinians. The notion that Israel is exercising restraint by not committing genocide ignores the consequences of that sort of behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/294 "2016-07-01T16:07:45Z")
[QUOTE=Deeg] I disagree. The treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank by Israel leads to despair and discontent, which manifests itself in rockets. [/QUOTE] There’s a reason other occupation situations (Tibet, Crimea, Germany/Japan) didn’t/don’t include rockets, and depraved suicide savages; no one would stand for it. No one would expect the occupiers to just take it. Negotiation in good faith is better, non-violence, etc. If Israel weren’t a Jewish state… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/295 "2016-07-01T16:51:01Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > There’s a reason other occupation situations (Tibet, Crimea, Germany/Japan) didn’t/don’t include rockets, and depraved suicide savages; no one would stand for it. No one would expect the occupiers to just take it. Negotiation in good faith is better, non-violence, etc. If Israel weren’t a Jewish state… Well, you have to compare like for like. Germany and Japan were sovereign states defeated by other sovereign states. Further, there was no expectation that the Allies would occupy the Axis in perpetuity, nor confiscate their lands. Meanwhile, [there is violence in Tibet](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/02/why-violence-in-tibet-is-getting-worse/253627/), though mostly carried out by the Chinese against protestors. Crimea is too early to tell. Israel’s situation is closer to South Africa, which had the [uMkhonto we Sizwe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe), a violent resistance group. Vietnam had the Viet Minh, which killed an estimated 150,000 civilians during the war against the French. Kenya had the Mau Mau, who carried out nighttime attacks on loyalists. As you see, violent resistance to colonization is more the norm than the exception. Lastly, no expects Israel to “just take it”, we want them to work to end the conditions that lead to violence. Again, the status quo is intolerable. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/296 "2016-07-01T18:29:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Even if I accept your assertion, I don’t think that makes it ok to go all stabby-stabby (not really directed at you, because I don’t think you think so either). There are lots of people all over the world that get the shaft, and don’t resort to stabbing girls in their beds. I agree that such deaths are wrong and tragic. I guarantee that more Palestinian girls have died at the hands of Israelis than vice versa. What would **you** do if the government was stealing your land (and your extended relatives’ land), giving it to others, and you had no legal recourse? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/297 "2016-07-01T18:31:02Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > …there was no expectation that the Allies would occupy the Axis in perpetuity, nor confiscate their lands. Expectation by who? Seems like the Axis has [shrunk quite a bit](http://www.fasttrackteaching.com/ftap/map15AxisEurope.html) through “confiscation”. And you don’t hear much about the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere anymore. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/298 "2016-07-01T18:32:09Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That’s loser talk. Being handed a shit hand doesn’t force somebody to become a self-destructive idiot, but being a self-destructive idiot is a good way to ensure you’ll always have a shit hand. What would you do if you were Palestinian? Imagine settlers have stolen your land 15 years ago and–despite rulings in your favor–you still can’t go back. Keep in mind that high Israeli politicians are opening campaigning against you. What is your plan? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/299 "2016-07-01T18:38:07Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > There’s a reason other occupation situations (Tibet, Crimea, Germany/Japan) didn’t/don’t include rockets, and depraved suicide savages; no one would stand for it. No one would expect the occupiers to just take it. Negotiation in good faith is better, non-violence, etc. If Israel weren’t a Jewish state… These situations are not comparable and it’s ludicrous to try. The US set up a strong rule of law in Germany and Japan and spent $billions to restore them under the Marshall Plan. The Americans did not systematically steal land from the local inhabitants nor kill thousands in retaliation for deathly attacks. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/300 "2016-07-01T18:40:56Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > The Americans did not systematically steal land from the local inhabitants nor kill thousands in retaliation for deathly attacks. With noted exceptions of Native Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840.md?page=16)