# Israel/Palestinians: Your Take **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840 "2016-03-22T07:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/101 "2016-05-14T00:10:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You know, your devotion to Israel borders on the traitorous. Pat Buchanan, is that you? America and Israel are the hope of the Earth, the two great nations left today, given how Europe has gone down the mass Muslim immigration rabbit hole, and have a [symbiotic vital relationship.](http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with-benefits-why-the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america) It’s also worth calling out the hypocrisy of the far-left, given how Israel is [the only free country](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2016)in the Middle East and [only country with LGB rights in the ME.](http://old.ilga.org/Statehomophobia/ILGA_WorldMap_2015_ENG.pdf) If after all, freedom should matter in foreign policy, right? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/102 "2016-05-14T00:19:56Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Pat Buchanan, is that you? > > America and Israel are the hope of the Earth, the two great nations left today, Oh, that’s totally not insane. You’ll excuse me if I continue to think that your stance borders on traitorous. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/103 "2016-05-14T00:24:45Z")
I support Israel in most issues, but think Israel needs to withdraw from the West Bank and all settlements. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/104 "2016-05-14T00:26:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > America and Israel are the hope of the Earth, the two great nations left today, given how Europe has gone down the mass Muslim immigration rabbit hole, and have a [symbiotic vital relationship.](http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with-benefits-why-the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america) I am not saying you are, but you sound awfully like a religious fanatic. In what ways, specifically, are America and Israel the hope of the Earth? Let’s start there. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > It’s also worth calling out the hypocrisy of the far-left, given how Israel is [the only free country](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2016)in the Middle East and [only country with LGB rights in the ME.](http://old.ilga.org/Statehomophobia/ILGA_WorldMap_2015_ENG.pdf) If after all, freedom should matter in foreign policy, right? Precisely how do you consider Israel a practitioner of freedom if 15% of its residents are not free? ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/105 "2016-05-14T01:18:32Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I am not saying you are, but you sound awfully like a religious fanatic. In what ways, specifically, are America and Israel the hope of the Earth? Let’s start there. > > Precisely how do you consider Israel a practitioner of freedom if 15% of its residents are not free? what are you talking about?? Freedom House says “free,” its free. They’re an honourable authority on this. If you mean Israeli-Arabs, no doubt they face discrimination, but is America “not free” because blacks face discrimination, even tho FH ranks America as “free” too? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/106 "2016-05-14T01:28:38Z")
I would assume he meant those living in Gaza and the West Bank. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/107 "2016-05-14T01:41:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I would assume he meant those living in Gaza and the West Bank. ummm they’re kinda at war with Israel and have been since before 1967, before Israel took the West Bank and Gaza over. And BTW, Israel left Gaza 11 years ago, as Hillary pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/108 "2016-05-14T01:50:27Z")
Ah yes, Israel just controls Gaza’s coastline and airspace and only colludes with Egypt to control the land border so we can pretend they don’t control the actual territory. Don’t you feel silly buying that line? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/109 "2016-05-14T03:30:38Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > what are you talking about?? Freedom House says “free,” its free. They’re an honourable authority on this. > > If you mean Israeli-Arabs, no doubt they face discrimination, but is America “not free” because blacks face discrimination, even tho FH ranks America as “free” too? Yes, blacks do still face discrimination in the US, which is disgusting. The difference between how blacks are treated in the US and how Arabs are treated in Israel is precisely one of freedom. Israeli Arabs do not enjoy complete freedom of movement nor, for the most part, the ability to have their participation in Israel’s political process fully credited. Regardless what Freedom House claims, that is not freedom. > [@CarnalK](#): > > I would assume he meant those living in Gaza and the West Bank. Actually, I am talking about Israeli-Arabs who live in Israel proper. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/110 "2016-05-14T03:30:50Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I am not saying you are, but you sound awfully like a religious fanatic. In what ways, specifically, are America and Israel the hope of the Earth? Let’s start there. I’m the furthest thing in the world from religious. I oppose all bans on abortion (including late term) and oppose the idiotic notion that people should be abstinent before marriage. I’m also a firm believer in LGB rights. America is the hope of the Earth because it freed the world from fascism and communism and will do the same against Muslim jihadism. Israel is also a hope of the Earth because it carries the torch of freedom in a dark region of bondage, given its Freedom House Freedom In the World ranking as the [only free country in the Middle East](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2016), and also fought communism and fights Muslim jihadism. Notice how nowhere in my reasoning are things about promised land or second coming. My support for Israel has nothing to do with religion. Until Israel is joined in the region on that Freedom House map by its neighbors, it will forever be exceptional as a country to its neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/111 "2016-05-14T03:40:39Z")
Also, how in the world can you credit a nation with any claim to freedom when it is continuing to take over the lands of its neighbor inch by inch, day by day with the incontrovertably illegal settlements? How can Israel possibly claim the mantle of freedom when it continues to occupy the West Bank and subjugate its people? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/112 "2016-05-14T03:54:15Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > . . . incontrovertably illegal settlements? . . . Not incontrovertibly. Arguably, but the argument can go both ways. Israel could take the entire West Bank by right of conquest. There is plenty of legal precedent for that. (I believe the settlements are a problem, a bad strategy, and an obstacle to peace. But NOTHING is the region is “incontrovertible.”) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/113 "2016-05-14T04:04:03Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > In the World ranking as the [only free country in the Middle East](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2016), Cyprus ( including Turkish-guaranteed and Muslim Northern Cyprus ). > [@](#): > > and also fought communism The communists ( Maki ) hold three seats in the Knesset as part of Hadash on the Joint List. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/114 "2016-05-14T04:04:06Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > America is the hope of the Earth because it freed the world from fascism and communism and will do the same against Muslim jihadism. Really? I guess China and N. Korea don’t count. Remind me, who defeated Franco? And did we win WWII singlehandedly? Did we cause the downfall of Soviet communism in anything but an indirect way? (To answer the last question myself, no, economics did.) And no, we won’t ‘do the same’ against jihadism. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/115 "2016-05-14T10:43:23Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Cyprus ( including Turkish-guaranteed and Muslim Northern Cyprus ). > > The communists ( Maki ) hold three seats in the Knesset as part of Hadash on the Joint List. Cyprus is considered to be in Europe, per Freedom House. Also, one country on the face of the planet recognizes it; Turkey. Israel has a lot more international recognition than Northern Cyprus. Heck, more Muslim countries recognize Israel than Northern Cyprus! Also, when I say that Israel fought communism, I was referring to fighting Soviet armed allies during the Cold War and giving the US the communist supplied weapons and downed tanks/planes. A lot better than having the USSR as a patron for much of the Cold War, like the PLO, Assad’s Syria, and Nasser. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/116 "2016-05-14T22:55:27Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Cyprus is considered to be in Europe, per Freedom House. That’s a slightly idiosyncratic stance on their part. On the one hand the Republic of Cyprus is politically part of the EU, on the other geographically it is typically considered part of the [ME](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East#Territories_and_regions_usually_within_the_Middle_East). It’s a lot closer to Israel than Europe. > [@](#): > > Also, one country on the face of the planet recognizes it; Turkey. Israel has a lot more international recognition than Northern Cyprus. Heck, more Muslim countries recognize Israel than Northern Cyprus! You misunderstood me - there are TWO Cyprus. The Turkish enclave ( rated as free ) and internationally recognized Republic of Cyprus ( also rated as free ). I was merely emphasizing that Freedom House rates BOTH of them as free. > [@](#): > > Also, when I say that Israel fought communism, I was referring to fighting Soviet armed allies during the Cold War and giving the US the communist supplied weapons and downed tanks/planes. A lot better than having the USSR as a patron for much of the Cold War, like the PLO, Assad’s Syria, and Nasser. The Soviet Union was the second country to recognize Israel’s independence and supplied them with arms via Czechoslovakia during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The thought they’d be good socialists ( and relative to the USA probably they rather are ). Relations with the Soviets only chilled during the early 1950’s. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/117 "2016-05-14T23:21:34Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > The Soviet Union was the second country to recognize Israel’s independence and supplied them with arms via Czechoslovakia during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The thought they’d be good socialists ( and relative to the USA probably they rather are ). Relations with the Soviets only chilled during the early 1950’s. and the Israelis fought Soviet aligned Arab states, like Nassers Egypt, and pre-Hafez and Hafez era Syria in 1956 (Ike was wrong; he shoulda let Britain, France, and Israel keep going), 1967, and 1972, as well as fighting the USSR’s favored PLO thru the '70s and '80s. Nasser was given “Hero of the Bolshevik Union” award too. The Bolsheviks also pushed the UN’s “Zionism is Racism” resolution to. Israel fought evil communism, its opponents largely sided with it. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/118 "2016-05-14T23:42:55Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Israel fought evil communism, its opponents largely sided with it. IMHO that’s a rather simplistic view of the realpolitik in the region. Egypt was really no more communist than Israel was anti-communist - in the 1950’s-1970’s both were essentially ethnic-nationalist, very vaguely socialist states. It was all just Cold War politics. ---
**Author:** ![Commodore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Commodore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commodore)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/119 "2016-05-15T02:31:26Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Pat Buchanan, is that you? > > America and Israel are the hope of the Earth, the two great nations left today, given how Europe has gone down the mass Muslim immigration rabbit hole, and have a [symbiotic vital relationship.](http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with-benefits-why-the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america) > > It’s also worth calling out the hypocrisy of the far-left, given how Israel is [the only free country](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2016)in the Middle East and [only country with LGB rights in the ME.](http://old.ilga.org/Statehomophobia/ILGA_WorldMap_2015_ENG.pdf) If after all, freedom should matter in foreign policy, right? What has GLB rights got to do with Israel, ever read the OT. Zion in the OT is one thing but Z ---
**Author:** ![Commodore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Commodore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commodore)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840/120 "2016-05-15T03:14:34Z")
Woops something happened. Zionist are not on about true Zion mentioned in the OT and the True people who believe in the OT the orthodox ! do not say that such is true Zion at all and they know better that the rest of them that claim such rot. And they do not clam that the State being called Israel is in fact truly Israel yet ! Israel means the Servants of God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-palestinians-your-take/749840.md?page=7)