# Israel ready to attack Iran? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685 "2012-02-03T21:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/1 "2012-02-03T21:14:38Z")
Although this topic has been debated almost endlessly on the SDMB for the past, oh 8 years or so, seems to me that just because your paranoid it doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you. Upfront, I’ll state my views on the matter: and they are simply that it is madness. To me, it matters little whether Iran’s going nuclear or not – but I’ll also add that seeing the way the US has gone bonkers on the region, it’d be irresponsible for their leaders _not to do so_. From a defensive strategy, if there’s one thing we’ve learned from the whole “Triangle of Evil” fiasco is that a nation not in good standing with the US of A – and possibly Israel – would do well for itself to find/develop the best possible deterrent. Which are obviously nukes at this point in time. Saved NK for one. Secondly why do I think this topic is more relevant today than at any other time in the past? Because I read the news that’s why. And [**Google-vomit**](http://www.google.com.do/search?q=military+attack+on+Iran&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=military+attack+on+Iran&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=zpl&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsu&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=Y0gsT4f-FrCl2AXO5LnrDg&ved=0CDcQqAI&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=34a423aa902d2735&biw=1120&bih=593) is getting shrieker by the day. So, do we ignore all signals so far? Or do we start having a coherent response to any/all insinuations? As in “hell no, not again.” Then again, if you are all for war, say so and why. That’s the debate right there. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/2 "2012-02-03T21:19:33Z")
Meant to post this in GD. Apologies. Have already sent a request for a forum change. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/3 "2012-02-03T21:32:33Z")
I’d simply like to point out that you are a mouth-breathing simpleton with a black and white view of international politics that makes The Jetsons look like cutting edge scifi. Also, have you figured out yet why you’re prone to making lists of everybody in the US government whose names sound Jewish to you and accusing them all of potential treachery, and then removing the names of those whose politics haven’t changed but who you learn aren’t Jewish? See you in GD, buttercup. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/4 "2012-02-03T21:33:58Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Upfront, I’ll state my views on the matter: and they are simply that it is madness. This. Is. [ARTA!](http://www.arta.co.il/). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/5 "2012-02-03T21:40:04Z")
Moved to GD. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/6 "2012-02-03T21:41:10Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’d simply like to point out that you are a mouth-breathing simpleton with a black and white view of international politics that makes The Jetsons look like cutting edge scifi. > Also, have you figured out yet why you’re prone to making lists of everybody in the US government whose names sound Jewish to you and accusing them all of potential treachery, and then removing the names of those whose politics haven’t changed but who you learn aren’t Jewish? > > See you in GD, buttercup. Any comment on his actual questions, or are you content just to get an _ad hominem_ broadside in under the wire? (A preemptive strike, you might say?) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/7 "2012-02-03T21:42:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’d simply like to point out that you are a mouth-breathing simpleton with a black and white view of international politics that makes The Jetsons look like cutting edge scifi. > Also, have you figured out yet why you’re prone to making lists of everybody in the US government whose names sound Jewish to you and accusing them all of potential treachery, and then removing the names of those whose politics haven’t changed but who you learn aren’t Jewish? > > See you in GD, buttercup. Thank you. Appreciate your always insightful input, sweet-cheeks. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/8 "2012-02-03T21:45:39Z")
I don’t know how I really feel about this whole matter other than scared at the seeming inevitability this particular issue has gained recently. I really wish and hope that we take a break from wars for a good long while. If Israel wants to start shit with Iran, let them. We should sit this one out. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/9 "2012-02-03T21:57:34Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I don’t know how I really feel about this whole matter other than scared at the seeming inevitability this particular issue has gained recently. I really wish and hope that we take a break from wars for a good long while. > > If Israel wants to start shit with Iran, let them. We should sit this one out. Without adding the “we” I feel pretty much the same way as you; I do know it is a very scary situation. But I also realize that Israel is quite unlikely to do anything w/out the US’s Government backing. Hard to imagine the ensuing global clusterfuck. As if it isn’t bad enough already. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/10 "2012-02-03T21:57:46Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Any comment on his actual questions, or are you content just to get an _ad hominem_ broadside in under the wire? (A preemptive strike, you might say?) We were in the Pit, now we’re here. Of course, Red’s knowledge of geopolitics in the region is woefully deficient. Even a direct strike on Iranian facilities by Israeli forces won’t necessarily equal war. [Precedent on this matter is quite clear.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13530945) Even leaving that aside, the notion that Iran can best protect itself not by disarming and ceasing to support Hamas, Hezbollah et al but by continuing to convince the world that it’s got a covert nuclear weapons program? By actually going full steam ahead with a nuclear weapons program? It’s an absurdity. Absent its strong support for international terrorism ranging from Al Queada to Hezbollah, its desire to subvert and dominate neighboring regimes (see Lebanon) and its obvious pattern of obstruction when it comes to the IAEA which has certified that some of Iran’s activities are only consistent with weaponization and not dual-use technology… well, The West [sup]tm[/sup] in general and Israel in specific no longer have any problem with Iran. If they really wanted to avoid a potential attack by Israel, in addition to stopping their support of Hamas and Hezbollah they could always actually make peace. There’s a reason that Israel hasn’t gone to war with Jordan or Egypt lately. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/11 "2012-02-03T21:58:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Moved to GD. This thread is now in Great Debates, so insults are not allowed, and everyone is reminded to stay well inside the lines regarding taunting and other obnoxiousness. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/12 "2012-02-03T22:15:21Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Even a direct strike on Iranian facilities by Israeli forces won’t necessarily equal war. Nitpicking. What does the name used matter? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Even leaving that aside, the notion that Iran can best protect itself not by disarming and ceasing to support Hamas, Hezbollah et al but by continuing to convince the world that it’s got a covert nuclear weapons program? By actually going full steam ahead with a nuclear weapons program? It’s an absurdity. No, it’s the obvious truth; nothing gets nations to back off better than having nuclear weapons. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Absent its strong support for international terrorism ranging from Al Queada to Hezbollah, its desire to subvert and dominate neighboring regimes (see Lebanon) and its obvious pattern of obstruction when it comes to the IAEA which has certified that some of Iran’s activities are only consistent with weaponization and not dual-use technology… well, The West [sup]tm[/sup] in general and Israel in specific no longer have any problem with Iran. More nonsense. All they need to do is look to Iraq to see that cooperation gains you nothing but conquest and death. If Saddam had owned some nukes, he and a great many other Iraqis would still be alive (assuming he hadn’t died of old age by now). > [@FinnAgain](#): > > If they really wanted to avoid a potential attack by Israel, in addition to stopping their support of Hamas and Hezbollah they could always actually make peace. They tried making peace with America and got slapped with the “Axis of Evil” label in return. The West doesn’t want peace with them. And yes that was America and not Israel; but it’s America that actually matters here. Israel isn’t a real threat to them, America is. Israel could sink into the ocean and it would still make sense for the Iranians to want nuclear weapons. If it was _America_ that suddenly vanished on the other hand I _could_ see them deciding that nukes aren’t worth it. So Israel can threaten Iran or not all it likes; what they do isn’t really important as to whether or not the Iranians should go for nukes. Israel is a sideshow. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/13 "2012-02-03T22:20:54Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Although this topic has been debated almost endlessly on the SDMB for the past, oh 8 years or so, seems to me that just because your paranoid it doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you. > > Upfront, I’ll state my views on the matter: and they are simply that it is madness. To me, it matters little whether Iran’s going nuclear or not – but I’ll also add that seeing the way the US has gone bonkers on the region, it’d be irresponsible for their leaders _not to do so_. From a defensive strategy, if there’s one thing we’ve learned from the whole “Triangle of Evil” fiasco is that a nation not in good standing with the US of A – and possibly Israel – would do well for itself to find/develop the best possible deterrent. Which are obviously nukes at this point in time. Saved NK for one. Assuming for the sake of argument that it is rational for Iran to attempt to develop nuclear weapons, it does not necessarily follow that it is “madness” for Israel to try to prevent it. The fact is that Iran has been extremely anti-Israel since the late 70s when the Shah went out. When someone says that they want to annihilate you, it’s prudent to take them seriously. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/14 "2012-02-03T22:23:36Z")
I don’t think Israel is a sideshow, they are a core issue WRT the stability of the region, or lack thereof. Iran clearly hates their existence. Israel has nukes and a kick ass military that could certainly do Iran some damage with a pre-emptive strike if they so chose. What happens after that (if it were to occur) is anyone’s guess whether or not there would be outright war or if Iran would just be forced to “deal with it” much like Iraq had to do when Israel took out their Osirak reactor in the early 1980’s. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/15 "2012-02-03T22:23:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They tried making peace with America and got slapped with the “Axis of Evil” label in return. What exactly did Iran do to try to make peace with the USA? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/16 "2012-02-03T22:25:06Z")
I hope that, if Israel does strike Iran, the US tells them to fuck off and that they’re on their own. I support them generally, but we shouldn’t be fighting their wars for them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/17 "2012-02-03T22:26:06Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Assuming for the sake of argument that it is rational for Iran to attempt to develop nuclear weapons, it does not necessarily follow that it is “madness” for Israel to try to prevent it. But a pointless attack that will fail to stop the nuclear program, will strengthen the Iranian government, underline why they need nukes, _and_ feed their demonization of Israel? _That_ is if not “mad”, pretty stupid. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/18 "2012-02-03T22:26:56Z")
Particularly eye-catching headlines: [**Israel Ramps Up Push for Attack on Iran**](http://news.antiwar.com/2012/02/02/israel-ramps-up-push-for-attack-on-iran/) > [@](#): > > Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey told Israeli leaders on Jan. 20 that the U.S. would not participate in a war against Iran begun by Israel unless explicitly agreed upon beforehand. But Israeli officials have not been satisfied with this reluctance. > > Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta has expressed concern that Israel will unilaterally attack Iran sometime in “April, May or June,” something a number of U.S. military and intelligence officials have argued against. > > At the conference, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak put an attack on Iran in a global context, claiming that support for such a strike is coming from the whole world as opposed to couching it in terms of America having his back. “Today as opposed to in the past,” Barak said, “there is wide world understanding that in the event that sanctions won’t reach the intended result of stopping the military nuclear program, there will be need to consider action.” > > Vice Prime Minister and Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Ya’alon, too, fought back against arguments that a military strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities would be insufficient, and perhaps counterproductive, in halting their enrichment. “It’s possible to strike all Iran’s facilities,” Ya’alon declared. > > Ya’alon also tried to frame U.S.-backing as really a tit-for-tat exchange as well as a security imperative for Washington. He claimed, without any evidence, that Israel had been behind an explosion at an Iranian missile base late last year where Iran was developing missiles “with a range of 10,000 kilometers” that could have reached the United States… [**Israel, U.S. Divided Over Timing of Potential Military Strike Against Iran**](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-02/israel-defense-chief-barak-says-world-understands-need-to-act-against-iran.html) > [@](#): > > The U.S. and Israel are publicly disagreeing over timing for a potential attack on Iran’s disputed nuclear facilities, as that nation’s leader said it won’t back down. > > The U.S. and Israel have a “significant analytic difference” over estimates of how close Iran is to shielding its nuclear program from attack, Aaron David Miller, a former Mideast peace negotiator in the Clinton administration, said today. > > “There’s a growing concern – more than a concern – that the Israelis, in order to protect themselves, might launch a strike without approval, warning or even foreknowledge,” he said in an interview. > > The differing views were underscored by public comments this week by senior Israeli and U.S. defense officials. > > Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said yesterday that Israel must consider conducting “an operation” before Iran reaches an “immunity zone,” referring to Iran’s goal of protecting its uranium enrichment and other nuclear operations by moving them to deep underground facilities such as one at Fordo, near the holy city of Qom. [**Obama team: Bracing for Israel attack on Iran?**](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/02/obama-team-bracing-for-israel-attack-on-iran/1) > [@](#): > > For years, the question has not been whether the United States would attack Iran over its nuclear program, but what it would do if Israel attacked Iran. > > That moment may soon be at hand. > > Israeli leaders on Thursday made their strongest suggestions yet of possible air strikes against Iran, citing Iranian plans to move uranium enrichment facilities into newly constructed mountain bunkers. > > “Whoever says ‘later’ may find that later is too late,” said Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak at a security forum, reports The Washington Post. > > Meanwhile, Post columnist David Ignatius reports that Defense Secretary Leon Panetta “believes there is a strong likelihood that Israel will strike Iran in April, May or June – before Iran enters what Israelis described as a ‘zone of immunity’ to commence building a nuclear bomb.” So, who is in who’s hand? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/19 "2012-02-03T22:29:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Assuming for the sake of argument that it is rational for Iran to attempt to develop nuclear weapons, it does not necessarily follow that it is “madness” for Israel to try to prevent it. > > The fact is that Iran has been extremely anti-Israel since the late 70s when the Shah went out. When someone says that they want to annihilate you, it’s prudent to take them seriously. As it surely works otherwise – with only one nation having the required technology and making pertinent threats. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/20 "2012-02-03T22:33:14Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Assuming for the sake of argument that it is rational for Iran to attempt to develop nuclear weapons, it does not necessarily follow that it is “madness” for Israel to try to prevent it… Of course it is. Imagine for a second being a citizen of the _other_ country. Why else would you think it is called “MAD”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685.md?page=2)